Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Fri Nov 22, 2024 10:26 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:16 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 8:35 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: Austin, Texas
First name: Dan
Last Name: Smith
City: Round Rock
State: TX
Zip/Postal Code: 78681
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I'm curious about how the overall string length (tuner peg to string end) affects the ease of fretting and bending.
I completed two Teles this year. One with top loading bridge, the other with string through body. The string through also has a steeper angle from the nut down to the pegs. Same strings, same scale length.
The top load bridge feels much looser and easier to bend strings versus the string through body bridge.
The string through seems to have a more percussive attack.
It seems reasonable that adding more string length past the bridge saddles will ease fretting and bending since you are stretching a longer and more elastic length of string. It also seems like the "attack" would be less.
Neglecting bridge saddle friction, is this true?
Will decreasing the angles from the nut to the pegs and the bridge saddles to tail piece ease fretting?
If any of this makes sense, what factors make the most difference to make the strings feel "looser"?
Curious if anyone can shed some light in a not-so-technical fashion.
Thanks,
Dan

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:22 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:57 pm
Posts: 1982
Location: 8.33±0.35 kpc from Galactic center, 20 light-years above the equatorial in the Sol System
First name: duh
Last Name: Padma
City: Professional Sawdust Maker
Focus: Build
We is talking compliance here when you are talking the overall length of the string, and not the string length...two different things.

Compliance ~ how easy it is to fret the string ( low effort = high compliance)

Now 'tension' is the actual load on the string. Two different terms people mix up...most people haven't a clue about compliance.

Your right, the longer the after lengths, the distance form nut to tuners or from saddle to tailpiece...the higher the compliance, the easier the fretting.

The lower the break angles at the bridge and the nut...the easier it seems to fret as well.

Some swear they can feel the difference, others swear its a crock.

But then most cant tell the difference between a $10 bottle of Old Red chug-a-lug from a $100 bottle of Altesino - Brunello di Montalcino Montosoli. idunno

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.



.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:59 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:43 am
Posts: 1326
Location: chicagoland, illinois
City: chicagoland
State: illinois
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
as a string bender, i can tell you that it is a lot easier to bend on a gibson les paul or SG than it is to bend on a fender strat....i figured it was shorter scale length=less tension=slinkier feel


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:12 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 8:35 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: Austin, Texas
First name: Dan
Last Name: Smith
City: Round Rock
State: TX
Zip/Postal Code: 78681
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
the Padma wrote:
We is talking compliance here when you are talking the overall length of the string, and not the string length...two different things.

Compliance ~ how easy it is to fret the string ( low effort = high compliance)

Now 'tension' is the actual load on the string. Two different terms people mix up...most people haven't a clue about compliance.

Your right, the longer the after lengths, the distance form nut to tuners or from saddle to tailpiece...the higher the compliance, the easier the fretting.

The lower the break angles at the bridge and the nut...the easier it seems to fret as well.

Some swear they can feel the difference, others swear its a crock.

But then most cant tell the difference between a $10 bottle of Old Red chug-a-lug from a $100 bottle of Altesino - Brunello di Montalcino Montosoli. idunno

Thanks Padma,
I think in my example the sharper angle from the nut to the pegs on the string through are causing less compliance. The string tee's are closer to the nut as well. I can feel a very pronounced difference between the two guitars. My daughter was having a hard time fretting and said the guitar was harder to play. On the plus side, the guitar has more percussive attack.
Dan

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah


Last edited by dzsmith on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:17 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 8:35 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: Austin, Texas
First name: Dan
Last Name: Smith
City: Round Rock
State: TX
Zip/Postal Code: 78681
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
nyazzip wrote:
as a string bender, i can tell you that it is a lot easier to bend on a gibson les paul or SG than it is to bend on a fender strat....i figured it was shorter scale length=less tension=slinkier feel

I've always noticed that as well. I'm sure the scale length plays a big part, but perhaps the extra string length past the bridge saddle makes a difference as well.
Thanks,
Dan

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:36 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:07 am
Posts: 81
City: LV
State: NV
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I truly believe the longer the string, the greater the tension, no matter the scale. My 25.75" scale headless guitar has almost no string beyond the nut or bridge and strings are loose as a goose. My Gretsch 24.5" has a perfectly stiff string.

But I also saw this on another forum, guys with trapeze bridges talking about how hard it is to bend because of that surplus length, and how replacing the trapeze with a stopbar made bending easier. Makes mech sense, too. More work is being done to pull more material to the same frequency.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 48 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com