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Pore filler and stain recommendations
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10122&t=19841		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Pore filler and stain recommendations
I'm building my first kit and the next step is finishing. I'm almost positive I'm going to seal with shellac and use a Tru-Oil finish. The back,sides and neck are mahogany and it's a basic Martin style dread so I want a somewhat traditional look to the mahogany with stain and dark pore filler. It doesn't have to be an exact replica or anything but I want that type of coloring. I was thinking about Stew Mac's Colortone pore filler but I've heard a few negative reviews. I have no experience with finishing so I'm looking for some help.

1)Any specific recommendations for stain and dark pore filler?

2)I'm not sure what colors to use to get that Martin type color; Black pore filler or dark brown? What about the wood stain color, just 'red mahogany'?

3)I was thinking of staining the wood then sealing with a coat of Zinsser SealCoat shellac then pore filling then another seal coat of shellac then finish with Tru-oil. Any comments on that?

4)I also have to pore fill the cocobolo headplate, would whatever filler I use on the mahogany work on it too? I'm not sure what color to use here either.

Also if it matters, all the trim that is next to the mahogany is black boltaron(binding) or ebony(heel cap, end wedge). So there shouldn't be a problem accidentally staining those.

Here are a couple pics of my progress.
Image

Image
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
Jeremy my friend your dread is looking GREAT! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]

Here is a link to Stew-Mac's dread kit instructions - you can download and view the instruction manual for free: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Kits/Acoustic_Guitar_Kits/1/Dreadnought_Guitar_Kit/Instructions/I-5295.html#details

In the manual are instructions for using Stew-Mac's water based, tinted pore filler. Now I don't like this stuff and never mastered getting it to work but many others have done well with it and use it. If I recall correctly it comes in a couple of different shades and clear as well.

For pore filling I use Z-Poxy finishing resin and the results are excellent. I have yet to meet a wood that I could not pore fill completely in two applications. System III makes a finishing resin too that works great but is less forgiving on the mix ratio. And West Systems epoxy glue is the choice of many too including some of the pro finishers.

If you go the epoxy route keep in mind that epoxy is a sensitizer and some folks can have or develop allergic reactions to it. Do it in a well ventilated place, wear a respirator, and cover your skin where ever the epoxy may come into contact with it.

As for tinting epoxy I have never done it but perhaps someone else will weigh-in here with a solution.

Good luck.
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations??
Thanks Hesh. The Stew Mac filler is the Colortone stuff I heard so many complaints about. The Z-poxy sounds great but I wanted colored filler. What about the Lawrence-McFadden Grain Filler? I know they come in different colors, it's compatible with the Zinsser Seal Coat shellac isnt' it?
Author:  Pat Foster [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
Jeremy,

You have the sequence right.

Dark walnut pore filler, I think it's called, from LMI would work for you. I mixed red and brown analine dyes also from LMI for the stain. Here's the result on the neck:
Attachment:
DSCN6620.jpg


Pat
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
That looks great Pat! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
That does look great Pat. That's the look I'm going for. Are you talking about the Dark Walnut/Rosewood LMI Micro-bead Acrylic Paste Filler and the acohol soluble analine dyes?
Author:  Pat Foster [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
Thanks, Hesh and Jeremy.

Jeremy, yes, those were the ones.

Practice on scrap. Then, when you think you've got it down, practice on scrap. :D

Pat
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
Thanks [:Y:] I'll have to track down some hardwood to practice on.
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
I forgot to ask... will one 3oz bottle be enough for the entire guitar??
Author:  ChuckH [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
Anyone ever try adding analine dyes to Z-poxy to make a dark pore filler?

I just tried it a few hours ago and it seems to mix well with the epoxy. I used brown and red LMI's dyes on mahogany scrap pieces. I'll have to wait till tomorrow when it dries and sand it down to see.

I also mixed some dyes with thick CA glue and it seems to work good too as a pore filler.
Author:  cphanna [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
If you'd like to experiment with a different method, you can get excellent results on mahogany with Benjamin Moore pore filler in the "natural" color. You add oil based dark walnut stain to darken it, and then you add a little artist's oil paint in a color called "cadmium red light" to warm up the color. You adjust the relative proportions in small, experimental batches until the color suits you. The red is very powerful. I squeeze out a small amount on a plastic coffee can lid as if squeezing out toothpaste, and then pick up about a quarter-inch at a time with a palette knife. Mix it in thoroughly, and aim for the consistency of mayonnaise in your mix. Apply it with a cotton rag, as if polishing your shoes. It's very, very easy to control, and will fill mahogany in one or two applications. When it starts to look dull, wipe it off across the grain, getting off as much excess as you can and let it dry overnight. Buff off the residue with 0000 steel wool or very fine sandpaper. Repeat the whole process if a second application is necessary. Let it dry and harden three or four days before covering it with anything. You can put tru-oil directly over it, or you can do an intermediate seal coat of shellac. It is also compatible with varnishes, and lacquers, and I used this method under Oxford Ultima water based lacquer with great results. I used the same basic method under varnish on a walnut guitar, a mahogany guitar, a mahogany banjo, and I have no idea how many pieces of furniture and frames. You will be amazed at the way this method allows the natural luster of the wood to shine through. Tru oil, Danish oil, and tung oil are beautiful over this filler. As with anything else, you should practice on scrap.
Author:  John Buckley [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
Jeremy,

Your guitar is looking fantastic!

The recommendation to practice on scrap 1st is one I highly recommend, especially if you are using a particular pore fill and/or stain product/process that you've not used before. You can see exactly what your finish will look like, and how it will look with different products and methods. And, you can test different products and methods if you want (for example, applying stain to bare wood will usually yield a "look" that's different from applying that same stain to wood that's been sealed with a shellac wash coat).

Since I never seem to have enough suitable scrap laying around, I get 3" X 6" hardwood sample boards from Woodworkers Source to test my pore fill/stain/finish. They're inexpensive and good quality (I think the African Mahog ones I just got were $4 each), and they enable you to develop a finishing sequence that you'll inevitably be pleased with (make sure to document everything you do so you can go back to reference it when it comes time to do the real thing on your guitar). They also carry a good selection of woods.

With any luck, this should be the correct link to them:
http://www.woodworkerssource.com/3_hard ... mples.html

Best of luck---you've got a real beauty there!

john
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
I know mahogany is regularly stained darker. In fact almost all mahogany furnishings are stand quite dark. You almost never see mahogany in it natural color and I think that this a shame because event the whiter mahogany oxidizes to a nice golden honey brown color over time and looks fabulous under finish.
Author:  Jeremy Douglas [ Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filler and stain recommendations
Thanks John. I've got some small pieces left from my sides about 2"x4", so hopefully that will give me an idea.

Michael I know, I've got a all mahogany Larrivee that is unstained. It has darkened up since I got it. I don't think the natural look will work as well for this dread.
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