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Tool path verification
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10106&t=33768		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Sheldon Dingwall [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Tool path verification
Anyone using verification software? If I'm going to spend more money on SW I'd prefer something sexier like t-splines but ncplot has great tool path graphics and it drip feeds. Having the operator visually confirm what he's about to cut would be a huge bonus.
Author:  Andy Birko [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
Mach 3 displays the tool path on screen and So far that's good enough. I've caught a bad setting in Mach that was screwing up arcs from visual mill before I wrecked a part.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
I like to verify path by placing a pen in the chuck and running it at a low RPM. You can bend a pen to approximate the cutter diameter and have it just touch a sheet of paper. That makes a real inexpensive and provides a visual verification.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
MadCAM has toolpath simulation, and I thought Visual Mill did as well?
Author:  Andy Birko [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
Bob Garrish wrote:
MadCAM has toolpath simulation, and I thought Visual Mill did as well?


VM does have toolpath simulation but that's kind of like proofreading your own paper - e.g. VM requires arcs to be done in incremental mode. Mach 3 default settings are in absolute so...toolpath looks fine on VM but, arcs come out huge and dangerous on Mach 3!
Author:  Andy Birko [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
You know Bob, you made me think of something else - unless it's your machine controller doing the simulation e.g. mach 3, you might not catch an error if it's a wrong setting unless you verify that the simulator and machine are identically configured and react identically to all codes.

In my case, for one of my first tests I did a little toolpath that had an arc in it - first time I loaded it in Mach 3 the toolpath preview it showed a much bigger arc in the toolpath. I ran it anyway and so realized that the toolpath preview is accurate.

Later I did another part with an arc in it but I again saw the big arc. Called up Mecsoft tech support and had the problem solved in a second.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
I've used vericut in the past, it gets around the issue Andy brings up about playing back the cad input for the cl file by using the posted file in the simulation.
Author:  ballbanjos [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
I've always been OK using MadCAM's simulation, but one thing to keep in mind there is that MadCAM doesn't support arcs at all. Big files, but they work really well.

Using Vcarve Pro, which does support arcs, I've had problems in the past when I haven't had my Mach 3 set up just right where arcs in the simulation mode didn't even come close to what the machine tried to cut. Arc support brings a lot of baggage along with it.

Dave
Author:  Andy Birko [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
Jim Watts wrote:
I've used vericut in the past, it gets around the issue Andy brings up about playing back the cad input for the cl file by using the posted file in the simulation.


Are you sure that will get around the problem though? In the case of Mach 3 arc support, VM requires the machine set to incremental. If vericut is set to incremental automatically but your machine controller is trying absolute, I would think that it would still slip by.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
In vericut you run against a model of your machine/controller. Also you should be setting the incremental/absolute mode in the first line of your program. i.e. G90/G91.
If you verify in the cad/cam package, your verifying the created graphical toolpath, not the clfile. Sometimes (very rarely) you may not get that. I have had rare occasions where the graphic toolpath didn't match the actual clfile, on multiple systems over many years. They've all gotten better at this though and I think these days it's pretty much a non-issue.
Maybe I'm missing something, sorry if I'm off on a tangent here.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
No external software can account for having a broken controller. I'm surprised Art hasn't put in some sort of setup wizard if this many people are having trouble getting the settings right in Mach.
Author:  cbrviking [ Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
Bob Garrish wrote:
No external software can account for having a broken controller. I'm surprised Art hasn't put in some sort of setup wizard if this many people are having trouble getting the settings right in Mach.


I hate to bust your bubble, but Art retired a few years ago. I don't think there has been any new releases since then. Who ever is running it now just sells the software.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
cbrviking wrote:
Bob Garrish wrote:
No external software can account for having a broken controller. I'm surprised Art hasn't put in some sort of setup wizard if this many people are having trouble getting the settings right in Mach.


I hate to bust your bubble, but Art retired a few years ago. I don't think there has been any new releases since then. Who ever is running it now just sells the software.


That explains things :)

I've never used Mach, only hardware controllers or hardware-based controllers (programmable DSPs), so my bubble is safe...but I hope no-one lands on me if bubbles are bursting overhead!
Author:  npalen [ Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
http://www.gearotic.com/
This may be what Art is up to lately.
Author:  Andy Birko [ Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
I was looking aroun on the Artsoft page because I could swear that I saw some stuff that implied that Art was still working on Mach and inadvertently discovered that if you run Mach 3 without the parallel driver it can be used for free with unlimited lines of code...cheap toolpath verification....assuming you have it configures the same as your machine.
Author:  npalen [ Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tool path verification
Andy Birko wrote:
I was looking aroun on the Artsoft page because I could swear that I saw some stuff that implied that Art was still working on Mach and inadvertently discovered that if you run Mach 3 without the parallel driver it can be used for free with unlimited lines of code...cheap toolpath verification....assuming you have it configures the same as your machine.


No swearing around here, Andy. :D
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