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CAM software discussions
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10106&t=30946		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Andy Birko [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  CAM software discussions
Let's discuss the various options for CAM software out there and why you chose what you did.

I'll probably be getting my machine within two to three weeks and then will start evaluating the various CAM packages out there. I want to stay under $1k if at all possible. My basic requirements are to be able to follow "fancy" tool paths like the spiral helix in a violin scroll, waterline machining perhaps, 2.5d and 3d capability, multi side machining and I have to be able to figure it out without mega hand holding. It also has to be generic as my final cad solution isn't decided yet either.

So right now I've got two front runners:

VisualMill - seems like a very powerful piece of software but also rather complicated to use. I've run through several tutorials and then tried to load my own part and couldn't get it to work right. It also seems that $1k gets you pretty basic functionality and you've got to spend about $4k to get the fancy tool paths.

DeskProto - this was recommended to me by a guy that makes high end CNC machines for jewlers. I haven't downloaded the eval yet because it's no restrictions for 30 days - I want to have the machine up and running before I install the eval so I can really run it through its paces. Looking at the feature list on the website it looks like it might fit the bill.

What are you guys using? Feel free to discuss solutions that are outside my price range as well.
Author:  turmite [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CAM software discussions
Andy have you tried the plugin for Rhino called Madcam? If not, give it a try. I rep for Madcam as well as help trouble shoot, test betas and do support. We are slowly building an online users support system and most of them surpass my knowledge and experience.

http://www.madcamcnc.com/start_page.html

While it says it is for mold and die, there are been many, many changes to the code base on this plugin to make it one of the best out for Rhino. It has lots of 2d as well as 3d features including all the way to 5 axis.

Mike
Author:  Andy Birko [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CAM software discussions
Unfortunately, Madcam won't fit the bill as Rhino isn't my main CAD software. I've got the OS-X version installed but right now Alibre is a front runner because of cost. They've got a plug in from Visual mill that updates toolpaths when designs are updated (alibre is parametric) which seems kind of cool but I'm still not sold on Visual mill though.

What kind of coolness does Madcam provide?
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CAM software discussions
In that price range, it's MadCAM or Visual Mill.

I might have missed out on some options since last I looked, but nothing in that price range a couple years ago was worth looking at next to those two.

Both are very good CAM software. I'd tend toward MadCAM if you're planning to get clever, as you can combine Rhino's ability to generate complex 3D curves with MadCAMs curve machining strategies to pretty much do any complex toolpath you'd want by hand. If you're not a proficient Rhino user, then Visual Mill is equally as capable outside that context and probably has a larger user following. Visual Mill is also pretty similar to MasterCAM in usage and look, last I used it, and so the tutorial materials might overlap a bit.
Author:  Andy Birko [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CAM software discussions
So I just tried to set up some toolpaths with visual mill on a test part i designed in solidworks. Unfortunately, all of the fancy tool path strategies are in the pro version which brings the price up to $4k or, out of the ballpark basically. It still seems that it should be a bit more powerful than deskproto in the $1k package though. As to complexity, I think with a little help from the office I should be able to get it down pretty well.

I'm asking them to schedule an online demo with me to work over the test parts I made and get me some G-code so I can test out the machine I'm looking at as well.

Kind of disappointing that I have to pay for 4th & 5th axis just to get the cool toolpath strategies.

Madcam don't cut it because I'm not sure rhino's the way to go for me. I'm quite used to solidworks so if I can get Alibre running on my mac it seems like a better solution.

Edit - Son of a... [headinwall] it seems that visualmill want an extra $1k to do indexed 4th axis milling. Deskproto does it all for about 1k.

Re-edit: just spoke with them an I had it wrong - the $1k version will do multi sides.
Author:  cyborgcnc [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CAM software discussions
Yeap....What Bob Said....

I am a user of Mastercam, and to be honest, there is not another package out there (in my humble opinion only) that can touch it! Very powerful and flexible....but also very, very expensive....I was able to get a seat from a guy who was upgrading.....and I had to go through hoops for that.....it is mastercam X, and they have added features since then, but I am happy with it, since for what i use it for, more than fits the bill....

In that price range, your options are very limited, and I have to be honest, in that if I was NOT using mastercam, I would be using visual mill....I have found it to be the closest to mastercam, and when I looked at it, was quite intuitive to use....

I am curious as to why you found it hard to use.....what is the lack of integration with Alibre? Do not be too concerned about that integration piece, since most packages only offer basic functionality in "integration" mode....you really need to export the model from the CAD package, and then import into a CAM package to get full flexibility (although manufacturers are getting closer)...
Author:  Andy Birko [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CAM software discussions
cyborgcnc wrote:
Yeap....What Bob Said....

I am curious as to why you found it hard to use.....what is the lack of integration with Alibre?


I think maybe I was being a little harsh on it. I just played with it for the last couple of hours and I think I'm getting used to it. I guess I was hoping for a wizard to walk me through the toolpath creation but it's now becoming clear that will often give sub optimal results. I think the possibility of mixing 2 & 3D toolpaths is a pretty powerful thing that something like deskproto won't be able to handle

As to integration, I just got off the phone with a visual mill rep and she kind of poo-pood the integrated versions of their software.

It would be really great if they put together a 3-axis version with the advanced finishing options without the 4th & 5th axis for $2k.
Author:  cyborgcnc [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CAM software discussions
I see,

Yeah, integrated versions are not the best....

as for wizards, even though they are easy to use, they are not as flexible or powerful... There are packages like Vectric Aspire for example, that have some wizard like features, but not really meant for very flexible machining.... and are really meant for more "artistic" type of projects etc.....

Trust me: Spend the time to learn it, and you will be better off in the long run....

I hear you about the price....I wish that some of these manufacturer's would realize that not anyone is running 60K machines, with production volume needs....and should consider catering more to the small shop and hobbyist....that has been my biggest gripe with folks like Mastercam/Solidworks etc....yes I get it, they spent millions to develop and market their products, but what if they made them easier to obtain, would that not bring more business to them? and overall make them more popular in the long run?
Author:  Andy Birko [ Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CAM software discussions
Yes, I think I agree about learning the more capable software. I've actually scheduled a live demo with mecsoft where I've sent them an IGES file and we're going to create the G-code online together. The part I created has features like the ones I'll ultimately be creating on my machine. They're also going to send me the g-code so that I can use it to test out the machine I'm buying as well.

As to pricing, I think that what they're hoping is that eventually, the hobbyist will cave and buy the high end version. It would be so nice if you could buy features a la carte or something like that. I so want a contemporary copy of solidworks but at $5k, it seems highly unlikely.
Author:  Andy Birko [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CAM software discussions
Anyone ever use SprutCAM? http://www.sprutcam.com/Products/SprutCAM

It's being sold by Tormach in the U.S. and seems rather feature filled for about $2k - includes just about everything. Company is Russian which kind of scares me a bit but for that price....dang.

I'll be downloading a trial version once my machine is up and running but I'd love to hear if anyone else has used it. I've found some decent to excellent reviews on some of the other forums.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CAM software discussions
I haven't used the software, but the finishing strategies on their website are definitely a cut above what MadCAM and Visual Mill basic are doing right now. It looks like they're offering constant scallop on their paths, too, and that's a great feature.
Author:  Andy Birko [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CAM software discussions
Bummer, I just read this in another forum:

Quote:
Nothing happens in SprutCam without any problems.


Might just have to trust my gut and stay away from this one.
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