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Spindle for inlay work
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10106&t=13580		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  npalen [ Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
spindle
Wondering if anyone has tried one of these? Looks like it might beat a screaming router when using a 1/32" or smaller endmill cut cutting pearl.   Looks like he has a couple different variations of the spindle.
Nelson
Author:  Anthony Z [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:32 am ]
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Nelson -- looks like a great deal! I might be worth asking the vendor where the spindle is made and if they are aware of which CNC machines they are currently used on.

For the price my suspicion is that it is made in ASIA (not that that is a bad thing).
Author:  npalen [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:49 am ]
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Anthony--I emailed the vendor asking for more info.
Nelson
Author:  Wolfgang [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:04 am ]
Post subject: 

Thanks for the interest.


The first I should mention is that all the spindles are hand built from bar stock here in U.S.A. I live in a small town in Washington St. I've been making them for almost 3 years now and have been selling great from day one.


The reason for the prices being so low for such an accurate spindle is that the ebay site is my main (only) income at the moment and need to take in as many sales as possible. Once I fill my site up with more items and I'm not dependant on just the spindle, I will be raising  the prices a bit. This will probably happen in the next few months.


I hope this helps, and please let me know if any one else has any other questoins.


Thanks again,


WgE.
Author:  John Watkins [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:18 am ]
Post subject: 
I bought one. I'll report back.

Wolfgang, can you recommend a source for the belts you use on these? Will you be offering a pulley that will fit an ER25? Thanks.
Author:  Sprockett [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:19 am ]
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Hmmmmmm now I'm getting interested, I can change out my router pretty easily on my machine. So I could swap out in about 10 minutes to do inlay...

John I look forward to your report...

-Paul-
Author:  John Watkins [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Why swap out? Something has to drive the spindle. Why not your router?
Author:  Don Williams [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:50 am ]
Post subject: 
I'd love a report on that too. Thanks John.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:57 am ]
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Looks like a way to save a lot of air on the high-speed stuff. Now I just need to figure out how to make some sort of carriage so my ATC can pick the thing up...
Author:  npalen [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:08 am ]
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I like the looks of the runout and endplay tolerances. Beats a router collet all to heck.
Richard (Wolfgang)-Thanks for stopping by!
Author:  npalen [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:14 am ]
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Bob--Looks like you could almost chuck the .750" dia. body of the spindle unit in a 3/4" collet on your Fadal. Too bad it isn't battery powered.
Author:  Parser [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:04 am ]
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What would be really cool is if you made one that runs at a right angle with a small saw blade for cutting fret slots. It would have to be a relatively small diameter saw blade (maybe 1.5") otherwise it seems that you would overload the bearings. It would be pretty cool to attach that somehow to the router mount on my K2 without having to remove the router. Some type of indexing feature would be killer. Maybe you could have a ground rod that you could actually chuck up in the router and then some way to square it off with the X Axis and lock it down? K2 might be into developing something like this with you(?). I'm guessing you'd need some bearings with a higher radial capacity than what you probably have in there...and you may need to also limit the speed based on the size of the blade due to balance considerations and/or stress due to centrifugal forces..

Of course, there are certainly safety concerns, and I won't pretend to make any judgement on the safety of something like this. Just off the cuff though, it seems like it could work.

Companies like Taylor use a right angle head for cutting fret slots...this is the best way to remove the material quickly but the cost of those right angle heads is pretty steep for us little guys. If we can't do something like this then we are pretty much stuck trying not to break our little tiny endmills.

I'm not cutting enough fingerboards right now to be too interested..but that day may be here sooner rather than later. Just my .02....good luck with your venture!
Author:  Anthony Z [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Wolfgang I hope you didn't take offense to my made suggestion that your spindles are made in ASIA. That's cool that they are built in North America. Just a suggestion but maybe you should mention that you make them yourself.

Good luck with your sales and thanks for dropping by!
Author:  npalen [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=npalen] Bob--Looks like you could almost chuck the .750" dia. body of the spindle unit in a 3/4" collet on your Fadal. Too bad it isn't battery powered.[/QUOTE]

Now that was a post made without much prior thought. (Put brain in gear before engaging mouth)
Author:  Sprockett [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:13 am ]
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[QUOTE=John Watkins] Why swap out? Something has to drive the spindle. Why not your router?[/QUOTE]

I could, I'd have to tinker with it some, let's see what you find first...

Personally I hate using a router on my machine, I'm dying for a spindle or ANYTHING better... it works for now but the first chance I get it's outta there :)

It gets hot, it arcs, it's noisy, thank God it has no end play yet but that's coming I expect.... in short it was a mistake to not get a spindle from the start... But such is life sometimes :)

-Paul-
Author:  Rick Turner [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:37 am ]
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I've got an HSK 5 hp spindle on my Techno router, and the thing is quieter than a Dremel even when spinning a big 3/4" three flute roughing bit. You can stand next to the machine and carry on a conversation while it's cutting.

Wolfgang, how about and accessory pulley mounted on a 1/2" or 3/4" precision shaft that one could chuck into a router or spindle?



Author:  Don Williams [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:59 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm curious about how an O-ring type belt has the ability to drive a spindle and not slip when under load. Is this spindle primarily for doing precision inlay work, or does it have the ability to carve a neck or a mando body etc.?
Author:  Parser [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:41 am ]
Post subject: 
For carving you want power and size. For instance, my PC router is 2.25 HP and the largest tool I am comfortable carving with is a 1/2" ball mill. I could theoretically go bigger but I would be sacrificing depth of cut, which already isn't that stupendous (I don't like to go more than 3/8" deep in a pass).

That little tiny spindle is now going to be an optimal tool for carving. It looks to be more geared for inlay.
Author:  Wolfgang [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:29 am ]
Post subject: 

Here is an email I just recently received. It may helps others with similar questions.


Hi Wolfgang,


Nice looking products you have there. I saw your post on the Luthiers Forum, and wanted to ask a couple questions.
1. How is the accuracy of your spindles compared to a router? I was planning on using a PC-890 series, but I would consider a spindle such as yours if the accuracy is significantly better, specifically concerning runout.
2. Does it have as much power to carve out wood as a router or a more expensive spindle such as a Columbo?
3. How noisy/quiet is the operation of one of these?
4. Which is the best over-all of your products for doing inlay work in wood and pearl, and also for carving wood as done in guitarmaking, i.e. carving guitar necks, or solid bodied guitars?


Thanks,


Don Williams
D.E.Williams Guitars


 


Thanks for the questions. I might take this email and post on the massage board to answer anyone else with similar questions. Hope you don't mind.


I'll answer them in the same order.


1. The accuracy of the spindle is consistently between .0001" and .0004". This far exceeds any sort of wood router that you can purchase off the hardware shelf and even most of the higher end routers specifically designed for engraving/inlaying. This spindle has been compared to the NSK E-250 as far as accuracy,


http://www.minitechcnc.com/spindles/nske250.htm


but as you can see it is 10X more expensive. To compare, the Dremel has usually between .002" to .003" of run-out, and sometimes worse. The TB-350S is 10 to 30 times more accurate.


2. I have gotten a couple emails saying more power is to be desired out of the 110VAC motor I offer. Here soon I will be posting a 12VDC motor that will have approx. twice as much power and wouldn't have a problem routing out hard woods and Pearl, or even aluminum or brass. However, a 12VDC power supply will be needed to run the motor. It will require about 12amps to run effectively.


3. The 110VAC motor is fairly quiet. I have several customers using theirs in apartment buildings and say it's working great. The 12VDC motor is a bit more, I would compare it to a small hair dryer.


4. My most popular spindle by far is the TB-350S. It has the high accuracy for jewelry work, but if the customer happens to need a heavier cut, he/she has the additional bearing in the head to support the cutter. For the purposes you mentioned, I would recommend the TB-350S. The DB-300S is for PCB's, Wax cutting and other very light operations.


Well I hope this all helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions.


Thanks again for your interest.


Richard.
WolfgangEngineering.com
Author:  Wolfgang [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:42 am ]
Post subject: 

[QUOTE=Don Williams]I'm curious about how an O-ring type belt has the ability to drive a spindle and not slip when under load. Is this spindle primarily for doing precision inlay work, or does it have the ability to carve a neck or a mando body etc.?[/QUOTE]


The O'ring works surprising well. Better than I expected. I have several customers who run theirs 8-10 hrs a day, every day and replaces it about every 3 months or so. The average customer doesn't use their router that much and the belt will last longer.


It has enough grip to snap off 3/32" endmills in a heart beat, and does a pretty good job with 1/8" end mills. The trick is that while cutting the grooves for the belt on the pulleys, I purposely "chatter" the lathe cutter to create tiny ribs for the belt to grip on. It works great.


Thanks for the questions.


Richard.


WgE.
Author:  Don Williams [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Sold.... I'm going to buy one and give it a shot.

Thanks Wolfgang.

Please feel free to use my questions on your site!
Author:  John Watkins [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:47 am ]
Post subject: 
These points seem to be covered in the item description on Ebay. I'm still curious about the belts and whether I should plan to make my own motor pulley.

Don, there is no way this thing is going to be doing anything remotely close to carving a neck or a solid-body guitar. It's the size of a permanent marker. Your maximum reasonable depth of cut is going to be less than a 1/2".

Author:  Don Williams [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:54 am ]
Post subject: 
How much will the larger motor cost, and will it also have a mount for holding the spindle and also an easy way to attach to a Z-axis?

Thanks.
Author:  Rick Turner [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:27 am ]
Post subject: 
I'll ask again...

Can you make a pulley on a 1/2" or 3/4" precision shaft for mounting in a spindle or router collet?   That would allow driving from the spindle already on my machine.
Author:  Wolfgang [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:24 am ]
Post subject: 

[QUOTE=Rick Turner]I'll ask again...

Can you make a pulley on a 1/2" or 3/4" precision shaft for mounting in a spindle or router collet?   That would allow driving from the spindle already on my machine.[/QUOTE]


Sorry I didn't get to your question the first time.


Yes, that shouldn't be a problem. Sounds easy enough. Go ahead and send me an email at: Wolfgang314@hotmail.com and we'll iron out the details.


Hope to hear from you soon.


Richard S.


WgE.
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