Bob, sounds like McPherson's cantilevered necks. They are bolted on and the extention has no contact with the sound board. (McPhersonguitars.com)
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| Gluing down the fretboard extention WHY? http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1792 |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:43 am ] |
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I’m sitting here today pondering why we scrap off the lacquer under the fret board extension (fbext) and glue this part of then neck down. It would seem that if there were any upward tension it would make since that a better glue joint would be needed, but the fb-ext is being pushed INTO the box, not pulled away, so for what reason is it important to get a wood to wood joint here? Is it that, down the road its easer to separate the two should you need to remove the neck? Is it easer? What am I missing here? |
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| Author: | Paul Schulte [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:10 am ] |
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Hmm, good question. I think glueing it down does at least prevent the neck from sliding up or down against the sides, even though it's not too likely. Another thought is that I would sure hate to have that fretboard extension create buzzing at certain frequencies. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:20 am ] |
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I have woundered the same thing So tell ya what Lance, I have a OM that I am building for myself as soundport and brace experiment. It will have a bolt on neck. I will not glue the extenion down. and complete the guitar as another part of the experiment. It will be complete before the end of the summer. I will do a report on the results over the next year. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:23 am ] |
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Paul - I am thinking that I would still glue it down, but whats the reason for the wood to wood joint. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:28 am ] |
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Oh so you are saying glue to the finish? |
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| Author: | Paul Schulte [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:32 am ] |
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Lance, what I think would happen is that any movement at all will cause the finish to crack around the fingerboard and you would eventually see a continuous crack right around the entire fretboard extension. This is just a guess. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:52 am ] |
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I think Mike Doolin just lets his fretboards float over the body, but there very short .. |
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| Author: | Kelby [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:27 am ] |
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Isn't the risk that the glue may not adhere adequately to the lacquer? If so, I would be concerned about the fretboard muffling the soundboard. If the two are firmly coupled, then vibrations will be transmitted rather than muffled. Glue would certainly couple them. Without glue, the downward force of the fretboard on the soundboard, created by string tension, may be sufficient to firmly couple them. But if not, I would guess it would dampen the sound. |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:06 am ] |
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I am pretty sure that John Mayes still has two small screws holding his fretboard extension down. Seems to me that this would eliminate the need to scrape away the lacquer. Maybe John will chime in here and answer that one. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:10 am ] |
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Ok there are some good points here about buzz and dampening. As far as dampening is concerned if the fit is interference fit would not it be the same as if the FB was glued. Now if it was close fit but not glued down, I could see both dampening and the possible buzz scenarios. I see problems with fit up on an interference fit. But on true floating FB dampening or buzz would not be an issue. |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:27 am ] |
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Lance, FWIW I don't glue the edges of my fingerboard down over the spruce, only the middle. This allows it to absorb and lose moisture without causing cracks. I would use at least a little glue, just in keeping things solid construction wise. But i'm not convinced it is entirely necessary. A good fit is important, however. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:33 am ] |
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[QUOTE=jfrench] Lance, FWIW I don't glue the edges of my fingerboard down over the spruce, only the middle. This allows it to absorb and lose moisture without causing cracks. I would use at least a little glue, just in keeping things solid construction wise. But i'm not convinced it is entirely necessary. A good fit is important, however.[/QUOTE] Are you interference fitted at the edges of the FB? Or are they clear of the top? |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:19 am ] |
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Michael, I'm not sure I understand your question? Everything fits perfectly, I just only glue the middle to allow a bit of movement at the edges (swelling and shrinking). My necks are integral (Spanish construction), which may make a difference. |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:20 am ] |
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I just bolt my FBE down. I think it would be a very touchy joint to have no gaps between the fbe and the top if it were not fastened down by some method. Especially considering the tendency of the frets to make that part of the fingerboard curl down due to the unsupported wedging effect. John |
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| Author: | Jimmy Caldwell [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:47 am ] |
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Lance, I don't use any glue in attaching my necks. I use 4 stainless steel socket head screws that screw into a block under the FB extension. On some necks, I'll add a 2" x 1/4" SS bolt through the neck block into an insert in the neck, depending on the heel design. I can take the neck off in less than a minute. The finish stays on under the FB extension. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:26 am ] |
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Jimmy - how thick are your fretboard exts? do you add a block to them? |
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| Author: | tl507362 [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:38 am ] |
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I strung my first and 2nd guitar up by bolting on the bridge and not gluing down the fb extension, and they both played fine for about 2 weeks. Then I just decided to remove the lacquer and glue it down. I felt that if the neck took a blow from the side, it could move the neck sideways and cause it to get out of alignment. But other than that, it would probably be okay not to glue it. Tracy |
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| Author: | bob J [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:59 am ] |
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What about not gluing it and have it float-not touch at all. Seems like you would get more movement of soundboard |
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| Author: | Darin Spayd [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:40 am ] |
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Bob, sounds like McPherson's cantilevered necks. They are bolted on and the extention has no contact with the sound board. (McPhersonguitars.com)
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| Author: | Wade Sylvester [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:05 pm ] |
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I have not glued any of my fbexes down. I have had many issues with this subject though. My 4th has a short extension and slightly ramps up off the sound board. This one seems to play fine. I have had two with longer extensions that started out a snug fit. It seems one ext has migrated up away from the top and the fretted notes are a bit buzzy after the 12th or so. I suppose gluing it down would have prevented that. The other seems to have stayed snug but the upper notes played on the extended frets, seem to sound thin. I don’t like the idea of building a bolt-on/removable neck and then gluing the extension but leaving it alone can cause problems with some guitars. I’d love to see some pics of the screw-down method if someone would share? |
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| Author: | D.L.Huskey [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:38 pm ] |
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You could just secure them like Resonator builders do. 4 screws through the top of the fret board covered with position markers. The large body post and baffel guitars get the under the fret board inside the body screw down treatment. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:47 pm ] |
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I like Jimmy's idea. Sounds sorta like the Taylor set up if I'm reading it right. Josh |
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| Author: | rick s.r.g. [ Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:20 am ] |
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I was taught to build without gluing the fret board. I use bolt on necks and was asked "why have a bolt on neck if you cant remove it?" I use graphite rod extensions to stiffen the neck extension and inset them right in the top. Granted I have only built 7 guitars this way, but have not had any problems. I also use 3 adjusting bolts to be able to adjust the neck while it is under tension (the Fleishman method) Rick |
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| Author: | John B [ Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:58 am ] |
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Rick, I also use the Fleishman neck joint, and graphite rod extensions inset into the top. At least on the first one (still fine tuning it). |
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| Author: | rick s.r.g. [ Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:16 am ] |
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John, it took me awhile to get used to it also but you can do so many adjustments with the neck that way, I was able to adjust the intonation on the last guitar I built without having to reslot and make a new bridge. after you have done a few it gets pretty easy. And it's cool to show people how it works. Rick |
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