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| Headstock design. http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1706 |
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| Author: | Jeff Doty [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:01 am ] |
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Hello Everyone, When designing a headstock are there any rules or procedures to follow? What are things to consider as far as tuner placement, spacing, etc? I like the look of Lance's new design, or John Mayes looks very nice. What would I need to do to design something similar? Thank you. Jeff |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:07 am ] |
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Jeff, It seems a lot of makers are doing the traditional Martin or more squared off Collings design... I know a maker who built about 50 guitars before reverting back to the more traditional head design. For steel string guitars it is probably less an identifying factor than a classical, but even in the classical world something based on Torres is often the most used design. Just make sure your strings aren't hitting other machine posts, and use your aesthetic judgement. Best wishes, Joshua |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:19 am ] |
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string/post clearance, string nut to post break angle,(I like but don't use right now Ovation’s and Seagull’s straight line break angel. Theoretically speaking, this should aid tuning.) machine fit-up clearance |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:41 am ] |
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Hi Jeff, When doing my designing, I had 2 sets of extra tuners available that I thought I might use. I also made a couple of headstocks out of available wood, even put a black lamination on one. I put one Grover tuners on one side, and Goto on the other. Since the sides of my headstock curve in ala Olson, the grovers were just a little tight. I have spacing dimensions, but I can't post em right now. The pix says it all. I'll get that for you too, later on. A set of French curves comes in handy. For symetrical headstocks, draw a ctr line, and just draw a half template for accuracy. Asymetrical, draw the whole headstock. Again, pine mockups help tremendously. More later.. G'Day! |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:27 am ] |
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I think the break angle and string spacing is/are the most important . I use 12 degrees but I believe most builders go with 15 degrees. I like to have my tuners line up as straight as possible with the string/nut slots. I think that alleviates un-necessary side tension and aids in the tunning process as far as the strings not binding in the slots (due to that side pull). As far as shape goes...anything that you like...although I think just about everything has been done already...so no matter how creative you become it's bound to look similar to someone else's. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:03 am ] |
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Something thats not been mentioned yet, is that (in theory) a larger headstock will increase the sustain of your guitar, by making a heaver anchor point at the nut end. I'm testing this myself with my CHS headstock, I have built 3 SJ's now, two with a standard martin style headstock and now this newest one with the larger heaver headstock, I'm hopping I get a little more sustain. Ill let ya know 
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:18 am ] |
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Jeff, I would suggest that you choose a headstock design that you admire--take the measurements / data from it--trace it if possible--then play with the shape on a sketch pad until you personalize it to your liking. What you want is to achieve something that looks like a recognizable (read defensible) headstock, but with your design flair. I started w/ a Gallagher shape, used his dimensions (he himself borrowed from Martin), then put an asymmetrical point on to the french curve top. It can be maddening, as you will think there isn't a shape yet untried. But spend some time with it. And don't yet make your permanent jigs for the shape... I bet it will continue to evolve for a while. |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:53 am ] |
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I agree, all great points. I spent lots of time tweaking, and learned a few layout principles. Make a few out of Masonite, put the tuners on and play with it. Those french curves really help. I made 5 of these prototypes, and two from real wood, and I'm close to arriving. My brother put my one into Autocad just to clean it up. Will post a few pix later(gotta scan, a couple, etc) |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:54 am ] |
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[QUOTE=LanceK] Something thats not been mentioned yet, is that (in theory) a larger headstock will increase the sustain of your guitar, by making a heaver anchor point at the nut end. I'm testing this myself with my CHS headstock, I have built 3 SJ's now, two with a standard martin style headstock and now this newest one with the larger heaver headstock, I'm hopping I get a little more sustain. Ill let ya know [/QUOTE]
Lance I remember one company that used to manufacture a bolt/clip-on brass metal bracket/thig-a-ma-jigs that claimed to do the same. I never realy heard the difference...but that was electric guitars so there were other variables at play. It would be interesting to try that clamp thing ( obvously make your own) and see if it works on Acoustics. I seem to remember someone dong research on this and the end result being it worked but the amount of weight needed to realy make a difference made the guitar too head heavy or uncomfortable or both. Keep us posted! 
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| Author: | PaulB [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:26 am ] |
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You want to make sure your strings won't foul on other tuner posts. As far as designing a shape; I googled for headstock images, then when I found one I liked (that wasn't photographed at an angle), I enlarged it until the nut width was right and then printed it out. Made a mock-up out of ply and put the tuners in. It was a good way to find a point of departure. Once you get the overall dimensions right, including tuner placement, you can play around with the shape until you arrive at something you like, then make a mock-up of that. Lance, I always thought that the point of having the scroll on a violin was to add some mass to the headstock (is it called that in a violin?) and that it was done in order to increase sustain. It makes sense, if the headstock is light and vibrates with the strings, then the strings must be losing energy, add some mass and it should vibrate a little less. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:29 am ] |
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Yet another point to keep in mind is to visualy balance the size and shape. Too often these days, we see curvy headstocks on squarish guitars, and vicey versey. Or too-small headstocks on too large bodies, etc... Keep your proportions in mind as you draw... |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:59 pm ] |
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Here's a couple I did for the sake of practice, just for the experience. I measured a couple guitars for nut to 1st tuner (1 3/4"), to next tuner (1 3/8"), tuner ctr to outside edge (9/16" in this one). The template and mockup are NOT the same, but close. As stated before, proportions are critical. Keep in mind that if you're binding it, the curvier it is, the more challenging it is.  
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:46 pm ] |
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BTW, having mounted the two types of tuners I was considering mounting, I found that the Grover buttons were a little close to the headstock on the E and D strings on the left. The design of the Goto buttons accomodated the headstock curve a little better. Curves are great, just have to be aware of design elements. Make those mock-ups! Happy day to you |
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| Author: | Jeff Doty [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:11 pm ] |
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Thanks for the help Everyone! Terry, those pictures really help me visualize the process. Thanks for posting them, that will get me off to a good start. Much appreciated! Jeff |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:46 am ] |
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Jeff, You're most welcome. Feel free to PM or post for any clarification. Any other guys & gals have any pix for show & tell? It would be interesting to see a pictorial of binding and purfling a headstock that's curvy.... |
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| Author: | LarryD [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:03 am ] |
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Wow, you guys are really great. I have been struggling with designing a headstock that I want for awhile as well and these ideas really help. It seems like it should be such a simple thing, but when you start laying it out, it often doesn't match what's in your head and I think I have been trying to make it too detailed. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:09 am ] |
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It would be interesting to see a pictorial of binding and purfling a headstock that's curvy Bind a few F sryle mandolin headstocks. Everything else will be simple after that! |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:40 am ] |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:54 am ] |
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Something else to keep in mind: You might want to make your curves the same radius as the sanding drums that you have. i.e. belt sander, oscilating sander, hand held sander, drill press sanding drum. It sure makes sanding the curves a lot easier. Or you can use a pattern routing method but there is still sanding to do. I have a motorized disc sander and I covered the edge of my 22" diameter dish with sandpaper. Now I use it to sand the inward curve on my snake headstocks. |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:03 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Tim McKnight] Something else to keep in mind: You might want to make your curves the same radius as the sanding drums that you have. .[/QUOTE] That's how Taylor came up with the top of their headstock :) |
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| Author: | Darin Spayd [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:57 pm ] |
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Funny....the headstock design is the only thing I've gotten done! 
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm ] |
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Here's a bound and purfled headstock (Terry asked for some pix?) What gets me more than the curves are the points, because at each one you've got to miter everything. Of course the easy part is then sending it off to Craig L. for inlay! 
BTW, I run the center of the tuner no closer than 1/2" in from the edge of the headstock. Steve |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:26 pm ] |
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beautiful Steve! |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:23 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] Here's a bound and purfled headstock (Terry asked for some pix?) What gets me more than the curves are the points, because at each one you've got to miter everything. Of course the easy part is then sending it off to Craig L. for inlay! Steve, Great stuff! My Great Granfather was a famous mountain guide in the Adirondacks, and I'd like to make an Adirondack guitar depicting him, my grandmother's homestead, & maybe some favorite insects,  wildlife, mountainscape aginst a full moon, Schroom Lake (our 9 mile long lake) Not sure what to put on it yet. But it will had a red spruce (Addy) top! Maybe walnut tonewood
Thanks for the inspiration Steve. I will be talking with Craig L @ASIA or somehting. I may do the inlay myself. I have a close friend who is an amazing banjo builder who's good at (relief) carving, inlay, and pearl & metal emgraving. He's really helpful too. BTW, I run the center of the tuner no closer than 1/2" in from the edge of the headstock. Steve[/QUOTE] |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:25 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Tim McKnight] I have a motorized disc sander and I covered the edge of my 22" diameter dish with sandpaper. Now I use it to sand the inward curve on my snake headstocks.[/QUOTE] Any pics of your headstocks Tim? |
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