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| Question for you repair guys http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1532 |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:04 pm ] |
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A customer recently asked me to recreate the pickguard on his Gibson ES 335. (That's the floating pickguard with the cutouts for the pickups, and the fancy binding all around.) I found this to be an involved project that took more time than I figured. Question is how much you guys charge for such a job? tia--sk |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:23 pm ] |
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When I did repairs full time (some customers even drove to Houston from Nacogdoches) I charged $45/hr. But I always give a quote up front, and never go over that amount without clearing it with the customer first. But hey... they went to a guitar maker to make it, not the factory. So if you have 2 or 4 hours into it charge them $100 for it if need be... edit: my spelling/typing is becoming so atrocious even I know its bad. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:06 pm ] |
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Joshua, [QUOTE=jfrench] edit: my spelling/typing is becoming so atrocious even I know its bad.[/QUOTE] But it's your guitar building skills that matter, and we all know how good they are! Colin Steve, Deciding how much to charge is easy, just look at the car the guy is driving, if it's BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Jaguar, just think of a number and double it. Anything else just think how much you'd be willing to pay. Colin |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:37 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Colin S]Deciding how much to charge is easy, just look at the car the guy is driving, if it's BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Jaguar, just think of a number and double it. Anything else just think how much you'd be willing to pay. Colin[/QUOTE] Really? I think you should give the guy a BREAK on the price... have you noticed the price of GAS lately? 
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| Author: | yukonarizona [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:40 pm ] |
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A simple bevel-edge pickguard from Martin can cost $75. A bound archtop guard that is well made? I'd think you'd charge atleast $200. I do my work in Boston however, and regional cost of living does largely determine hourly labor rates. |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:04 am ] |
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I recently did a pickguard - custom job for a customer who wanted a "plain" but thicker guard for his Guitane Acoustic. Had to make a templete, buy the expensive thick stuff...$110 plus parts/materials. Took a little over an hour to do total. I think that was fair... 
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| Author: | Dickey [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:38 am ] |
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What if the guy is driving a beat up VW with rusty bumpers? |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:01 am ] |
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I would offer to buy the guitar! 
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| Author: | Colin S [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:07 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Brock Poling] [QUOTE=Colin S]Deciding how much to charge is easy, just look at the car the guy is driving, if it's BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Jaguar, just think of a number and double it. Anything else just think how much you'd be willing to pay. Colin[/QUOTE] Really? I think you should give the guy a BREAK on the price... have you noticed the price of GAS lately? [/QUOTE]
Brock, you think gas is expensive, you should try living here, $7.25 per gallon $1.60 per litre! 
Colin |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:12 am ] |
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I think $40-$50 an hour is a fair charge. I let m customers know up front the costs. Most times the job is somthing you are familiar with. When stomping in unfamiliar territory you will be educated quick. I just had a refin to do, the guitar had a funky refin from someone that didn't know what he was doing. I quoted a price as I do this alot and when I shot the sealer coat the filler turned white. I now have to restrip and refill the darn thing. I learned that next time I do a refin on a refin it is an hourly charge because of the unknow chemical reactions of unkown finishes. you learn more from a failure than a success |
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| Author: | npalen [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:05 am ] |
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What if the guy is driving a beat up VW with rusty bumpers? I would ask him for a loan. He probably has more money than us builders |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:56 am ] |
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Ok. You guys have confirmed my suspicions. I have done repair work for over two decades, and I still have trouble charging what a job is worth. I wrestle with the thought that if I were better/faster I could charge something that wouldn't make the guy's heart stop beating. That's on one hand. On the other hand is simple resentment that guitar players don't drive BMW's, DO drive rusty VW's, and are so broke that they can't rub two dimes together. (Two pence, Colin.) This is just the scenario that made me drop out of repair work. (That's why they started coming to you, Joshua. [Har har]  )
I'll tell you what happened, and what I did. And forgive my ramblings...but I need to get this off my chest: The owner comes over, a nice chap (a fellow preacher) who shows me his guitar. We talk about the work needed, and discuss the feasibility. Next question--and I should have seen it coming--"What will this cost?" Blindsided me. Maybe I've been away from repair too long. After a far-too-quick computation of time involved, I shoot him a guestimate of $50-$75. What was I thinking? After several hours of labor, the pickguard looks great, if I do say so myself. He should love it. I will of course honor my quote, but I'm going to hug the upper end for sure.
The problem seems to lie in doing one-off work. If I made these for a living, the time would drop dramatically per unit. But it's the rare, once-or-twice in a career request that usually comes to me. (Which, looked at in another light is pretty interesting, huh?) You guys are probably right. Quote an hourly rate, and tell the customer it shouldn't take more than two days...three tops. Thanks mucho for your sage counsel. |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:09 am ] |
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steve don't underestimate yourself in repair. i have and it cost. I have to charge for repairs so i can build for free. the only repairs i don't charge is when refurbish for give away. 50 and hr is not an huge over charge. some things i have flat fee for ie neck set 350 nuts and saddles and differing setup level. i charge 47.50 an hour. some charge more some less. your a wonderful builder, so charge to your level |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:24 am ] |
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Colin - thanks! Haha Steve... when I made that comment I meant that in Texas that hourly rate seems fair. It is certainly good to never go over a quote. I've had so many of these one off things thats I've completely changed the way I operate. Sometimes I won't even give an estimate immediately. Most of my customers have high end guitars and know me from my full time repair days and are very loyal. Some play $5,000 instruments and drive crappy cars - that just depends on where you prioritize your money. I rarely have a clean bench here, and I'm always in the middle of other work - so I take things in, look them over, and usually tell them I will let them know the price once I have a chance to delve into the problem a little better. Unless its obvious, like a re-fret or a setup. I also don't charge strict hourly. I charge $200 for a refret, and on a classical this might take me little more than an hour. A $50 setup on an electric with a floyd rose might take me 20 minutes. But I always tried to base the hourly on the worst case scenario, and then make more than it. Most of your customers are surely saying "I take my work to Steve, that man BUILDS guitars", in a kind of "my repair guy can beat up your repair guy" sort of way. People take pride in their instruments, assuming its not crap. Mostly they want to get as much out of them as possible, and they don't mind paying for it. Not to mention they get to pick the brain of a guitar maker while they're there, and most guitarists really like people who make guitars. Don't be afraid to charge, and don't sell yourself short! |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:27 am ] |
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[QUOTE=jfrench] Colin - thanks! But I always tried to base the hourly on the worst case scenario, and then make more than it.[/QUOTE] I think that is EXACTLY right. If this is a business you need to treat it like one. Especially if you fuss the details and so a fantastic job. Quality needs to factor in there somewhere too. Here is a good story that I heard long ago -- I suspect it isn't true, but never-the-less the point remains the same. A woman is dining in a cafe and sees Pablo Picasso at a nearby table. Barely able to contain herself she approaches him, gushes, and pleads with him to sketch her. She offers to "gladly pay him." Pablo, never one to pass up a paying gig. Whips out his pad and --- zip, zip, zip, --- there you go madamme. She is honored and asks "What do I owe you?" He replies "$9,000" She FREAKS!!! $9,000!!! it only took you 2 minutes. To which he replies... "No. It took me a lifetime." Just tell that little story if someone complains about your prices being too high. |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:30 am ] |
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Great story! 
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| Author: | jfrench [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:17 am ] |
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Great story indeed! One other thing, everyone make sure you tell your customers that your work is the following: Quality Cheap Fast And that they have their choice of two of those things. |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:08 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=jfrench] Great story indeed! One other thing, everyone make sure you tell your customers that your work is the following: Quality Cheap Fast And that they have their choice of two of those things.[/QUOTE] Point taken. And, that would look fine hanging over the bench. But you know that your internal adjudicator would always insist on Quality first and foremost. Then you'd get into a fight w/ at least a third of your customers. |
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