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Finishing Binding
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=15100		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  drusso [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have a 51 Epi regent in natural that had shrunken binding. I replaced the binding (my 2nd time doing this) and now I need to finish the binding in clear. What do I do? tape off the binding and spray it? But then i"d have a build-up of finish when i remove the tape. So do I just spray the binding without masking and deal with the overspray. that seems like a hassle.  Any advice would be appreciated. thanks
Author:  David Collins [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Is the rest of the finish all original, and if so what kind of shape is it in
(including the edges that met with the binding)?Overspraying the entire
instrument would really be undesirable, and devalue the instrument a fair
amount.

Keep in mind that the original binding would have been scraped after
color was sprayed, and therefore would be stepped down below the
surface of the rest of the finish. I really don't want the binding to be level
with the rest, as it seems very out of place to me on an old Gibson, Epi,
Gretsch, etc.

I prefer to scrape the binding far enough below the surface of the body
lacquer, so that when I mask off the rest of the finish and spray only the
binding I will end up with the completed binding finish still below the
rest. You have to be pretty careful and strategic with the masking, but if
done cleanly it can come out quite well. The tricky part is that the finish
up to the edge of the binding slot is rarely fully intact. Then you often
have to blend in the seam somewhat, after the binding is finished and the
masking removed. Sometimes airbrushing is good, sometimes a few drop
fills if the chips are few, and hand padded shellac can be an excellent
final blending technique as well. It all depends on the individual case, but
keeping the patina of the original finish fully intact can be near
impossible to do within an appropriate budget for most instruments.

Or another option which can often be the best, is to simply finish the
binding in shellac. You can spray on a bit of build with the lacquer
masked off, building a nice color in the process, then pad on a few final
coats to blend after removing the masking.

I have a Gibson Mastertone resonator that I am replacing the binding on
right now, but it's an early 70's so maintaining the original patina is not
quite so critical. The edges are chipped pretty bad on this one, and I'm
not decided on what route to take on this one yet. I'll probably mask,
spray binding, airbrush in the edges, then level and buff the whole thing.

I actually have a 40's Epiphone Broadway in for for rebinding as well.
Fortunately for me in a way, it's already been stripped (poorly), so that
takes some of the preservation off my shoulders.

Good luck and remember the golden rule of "first do no harm" - or as in
some cases you may have to shoot for as little harm as possible.
Author:  drusso [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:56 pm ]
Post subject: 

Thanks


For this guitar I like the idea of shellac as a last application. But I have never applied shellac. Is it that you take off the masking after spraying the lacquer and brush the shellac just on the binding? or pad it on the binding and the surrounding immediate area to blend? Doesn't the shellac make the binding yellow/Amber - which might not be a bad thing. Any shellac?


the finsh, but for a few chips is in really good shape. The binding I installed here and there left small gaps between it and the wood on the sides mostly. I filled that in with stainable wood filler and plan to use Stewmac amber stain in lacquer on an artists thin thin brush to apply to these small areas. Matching exactly the finish is tough of course but the area to be stained is really like a  thin crack taht has been filled. Does that seem ok to you?


Much appreciated. Dennis
Author:  David Collins [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
For build coats I like to spray shellac, usually around a 2# cut through an
airbrush for jobs like this. I mix my own from flakes, but I have also used
BullsEye sealer from the hardware store (check the date on the bottom)
with excellent results.

As to padding on the blend layer, it is essentially french polishing. There's
a bit of a learning curve, and I certainly don't claim to be an expert, but
there are plenty of resources on the web and probably in the archives
here if you search them. Part of the beauty of the technique is that if done
correctly it is essentially a self-leveling application process. A good
padding technique can fill and push shellac in to the low spots before
starting to build the overall thickness considerably. After a good build,
careful padding with a very low cut to straight alcohol can actually clear
the buildup from the existing lacquer while leaving the chips and new
binding filled.

This of course requires a good padding technique (have I emphasized
that enough? ), as well as thoughtful preparation. To achieve this you
really have to make sure every area you want to apply finish to is scraped
to below the level of the existing lacquer. This can be exceptionally tricky
to avoid taking the shellac that you've built up off of the corners, though
on an old guitar even that can look like appropriate wear. Plus if you build
the finish over a short period of a day or two, from the beginning coat to
the final rub-out, the shellac will still shrink back slightly as it dries,
leaving an appropriate, original looking ledge at the binding.

It's not the easiest technique to learn, but gets easier the more you do it.
One other note to be cautious of, I use hardware store denatured alcohol
with the shellac for this process. Behkol is a common solvent used for
shellac, and though I don't know what type of alcohol or solvents are in it,
it can melt lacquer. Alcohol is not supposed to be a strong solvent for
melting cured lacquer, and I've not had problems with regular denatured
for this. The Behkol must have something else in it though, as I have
found it to react with some old cured nitro finishes.
Author:  drusso [ Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:30 am ]
Post subject: 

David, Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I am 45 and can remember when INternet did not exist - I don't know how we did things. I guess we just took more time, looked at some books and hoped for the best. Tha amount of collective knowledge available now is wild. I guess it will make us smarter, more efficient people.


Anyway, I really collect vintage and do a repair here and there for personal gratification. I have been thinking for the longest time about going to tone of those luthier courses for a few days or a week. I looked into Brian Gallops (sp?) who I think is near you, but have not pulled the trigger.


what do you build and how long have you been doing it.?If you  don't want to give a personal history on the forum, feel free to email me at woozie123@aol.com.
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