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For the most part I use what I presume to be the standard fret wire for steel string guitars -- Stew Mac Medium/Medium. 

My question arises from a thread in another forum revolving around the use of stainless steel frets to increase the longivity of the fret job.  It was mentioned that some people use a very much softer wire to accomplish the same thing -- by using LMI FW72 designed for nylon stringed instuments, the longivity of the fret job seemed to be increased.

It seems counter intuitive to me but I know nothing of the metalurgy involved. I also have relatively very few fret jobs under my belt, so I have no personal experience to draw upon.

What are your opinions regarding the hardness of the fretwire vs the longivity of the fret job?

 

Happy Holidays to all!

 

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC

no experience but LOGIC surely suggests that the harder the fret wire, the longer it'll take to wear.....

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Don't know either Jim buddy but I owned a guitar with stainless fret wire and the playability was an improvement IMHO - it was a Parker Fly Deluxe.

I also suspect with all good things there is a cost as well, perhaps it is more difficult to work with.

Rick has been experimenting or working with in production, can't remember which, ceramic fret wire.  Perhaps he will weigh-in here and help you out.

Harder wire resists wear better than softer wire. Softer wire is easier to
work with than harder wire. That's pretty much it.

I have a list I put together of several rolling mills, and the brands and
distributors they work through, with all the sizes and most of the
hardness listed. There's 18% ns, 12%, EVO, Stainless, each of which can
come tempered to a wide range of hardnesses. Then there are things like
when Taylor used to use Monel wire before they turned to the soft current
stuff. I though I had put up a long post some time ago, but couldn't find it
in the archives.

Anyway, it's all pretty boring. LMI, Allied, Shane, they all sell Jescar, which
is by far my favorite. I never found for sure where StewMac gets theirs,
but it's a very close second, bordering on equal in my opinion. I
personally think Dunlop and the Martin replacement wires are pretty
crappy in both shape quality and hardness. Stick with StewMac or Jescar
stuff and you'll be fine.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Thanks David.  I'll stick with what I have!

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC

I have a Carvin 7 string its about 4 or 5 years old and i play it religiously and the frets have no where at all that i can see. Stainless is great but its harder on fretting tools. Harder to cut with standard fret end cutters. I think LMI has a cutter they sell just for stainless use.

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Guitars, guitars and more guitars.

Hi Jim,

One luthier on another forum reported his experience with the new LMI gold "Evo" alloy fretwire , and said he was able to use his regular fretting tools (which may not be true for stainless steel.) The hardness of the gold Evo is supposed to be between standard nickel silver and stainless steel.

Sounds interesting to me.

Anyone here have experience with it?

FWIW, it looks to me like the FW74 is the standard, hard fretwire at LMI, and maybe they were talking about the FW75? From the LMI site: "FW75 Longer wearing because of its size, but softer and easier to work with "

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

The EVO "gold" fret wire is made by Jescar, and they told me it comes
hardened to about the same as their standard nickel silver wire, which is
about HV5-200 (Vickers hardness scale). This is about as hard as the 18%
nickel silver is tempered, and harder than about any other wire
manufacturer.

Shane Neifer distributes Jescar wire, as does LMI and I believe Allied
Lutherie.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Dennis

I used the Gold Evo fret wire on the 12 string I'm just finishing up.

No more work than the standard fret wire I usually use which comes from LMI.

Bob

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Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia

[QUOTE=David Collins] The EVO "gold" fret wire is made by Jescar, and they told me it comes hardened to about the same as their standard nickel silver wire, which is about HV5-200 (Vickers hardness scale). This is about as hard as the 18% nickel silver is tempered, and harder than about any other wire manufacturer.[/QUOTE]
Hi David,

I'm not familiar with the Vickers hardness scale, and don't know if it is logarithmic like the Mohs hardness scale for stones, or if it is a straight scale. LMI makes it sound like the gold wire falls midway between 18% nickel-silver and stainless steel:

"If working with stainless seems a little daunting, check out our new Evo gold fretwire. It is a copper alloy that has been used for years in the optical industry. It contains no nickel and therefore meets the "nickel free" European standard. It stands the test of time and can really dress up your guitar. With a Vicker's hardness of HV5/250, it is harder than our nickel/silver wire (HV5/200), but softer than the stainless (HV5/300). This wire is not plated; it is gold all the way through and retains the gold color once the frets are dressed."

Again, now that I read back over that, I see that I was simply seeing 250 as halfway between 200 and 300, and interpreting that as midway, but that probably just shows that I don't understand the Vickers scale.

Bob, I knew I saw that gold wire on some lovely instrument (and the discussion of working with it) - it was yours!

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

I must have been misinformed. I was told by someone at Jescar a few
years back that the EVO wire was the same as the nickel silver. It was a
question I asked in passing though, so perhaps the sales person slipped
at gave me the wrong info. If they say it's HV5-250, I'm inclined to trust
them on that because I was never given any specific numbers when I
asked.

I don't know how linear or logarithmic the Vickers hardness scale is, but
I'm pretty sure it's not a straight linear. This a subjective guess, but from
by experience the HV5-300 stainless wire is much more than 50% harder
than the HV5-200 wire that a linear scale would put it at. Some
manufacturers use the Brinell or the Rockwell B hardness scales by the
way, but Vickers seems to be the most common in frets.

I have to order some new wire soon, and I guess I'll have to give the EVO
wire a shot.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

I've been using stainless steel for a while now. It isn't a big deal and is
MUCH harder. I don't know if you would ever need to do a refret. That
said, if you bind your fretboards, you will need to make sure that the
binding isn't very thick because the ends of the frets will pop up. You
can glue them down with CA but I prefer to make sure they are well
seated in the first place.

I use Frank Ford's jig from LMII to prepare the frets for a bound fretboard
and use their special cutters. I definitely takes me much more time to
bevel the fret ends. In total, I would say an extra couple hours of work at
the most per guitar. In my opinion, it is a superior way to build a guitar.
And I am very interested in these ceramic frets I've heard Rick talking
about.

--
Simon

I believe the reason they came out with the gold wire is because europe has new laws on the use of toxic metals and nickel can be one.

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Guitars, guitars and more guitars.

The EVO wire is made with a proprietary allow they have that was developed for use in eye glass frames for people who have reactions to base metals or something.

At any rate, it is harder than NS wire, looks great, ad yes, it's not hard at all to use. Harder to cut and file? sure, but it's not "Oh-My-God!!!!" hard.

And once on the guitars and strung up, the gold coloring is so subtle that it is barely noticeable.

Thank you all for the additional information!  I may have to try some of the EVO wire also.

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC