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barritone guitar?
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=14820		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  KenH [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:46 am ]
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What is it that makes a guitar a barritone guitar?  I have seen these advertised, but I have no clue what makes them different. Is it larger than a standard size guitar or is there some other difference?
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:58 am ]
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It is a guitar set up to play in a lower register of the baritone range. different sting gauging, scale and so forth

Just like clarinets and saxophones Baritone, Alto Tenor
Author:  sharp_custom [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:23 am ]
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I had the same question. What's a common scale lenght for a baritone?
Author:  Kirt Myers [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:23 am ]
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http://www.manzer.com/web/index.php?thisid=164

Check this out Ken.
Author:  j.Brown [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:10 am ]
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I used a 28.625" on mine. I really like the feel of that scale.
I think many of the builders use a larger body, but I used a similar body to my Grand Auditorium size, only I made it a bit deeper than standard. It turned out very well. Good balance in tone and very loud. I will most likely make my next baritone exactly like it.
-j.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:13 am ]
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I believe the most common scale is 29" but I have seen from 28.5-29.4 listed
Author:  sharp_custom [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:39 am ]
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I'm thinking of making one with 16" lower bout and 29" to 27" scale length.
Author:  sharp_custom [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:53 am ]
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What I mean is a 29 to 27 multiscale length.
Author:  FishtownMike [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:58 am ]
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Fender made one called the six string bass or Bass VI. It was truely a baritone guitar.Bass VI
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:03 am ]
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I just made one with a 710mm (27.9") scale, designed to be tuned D-D in 'normal' tuning. The owner, Ken Bonfield, says it is perfectly happy a whole tone lower, using his usual Thomastic 'Plectrum' series strings, .016"-.054" iirc.
Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:03 am ]
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I'm just starting one. I decided to use a 34" bass fretting template (that I have), working from the 3rd fret to yield a 28.38" scale length. (if my 'ciphering is correct)

D'Addario makes a set of baritone strings (.015 to .070) Baritone Strings at JustStrings.

Dennis
Author:  j.Brown [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:39 am ]
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[QUOTE=DennisLeahy] I'm just starting one. I decided to use a 34" bass fretting template (that I have), working from the 3rd fret to yield a 28.38" scale length. (if my 'ciphering is correct)

D'Addario makes a set of baritone strings (.015 to .070) Baritone Strings at JustStrings.

Dennis
[/QUOTE]

Dennis, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but if you're saying you are going to use the same fret spacing as your 34" bass, only starting from the 3rd fret, you will be very disappointed. That will NOT yield you a correct fret position anywhere.
Yes, D'Addario baritone string are pretty nice. I use those same ones.
-j.
Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:12 pm ]
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[QUOTE=j.Brown] Dennis, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but if you're saying you are going to use the same fret spacing as your 34" bass, only starting from the 3rd fret, you will be very disappointed. That will NOT yield you a correct fret position anywhere.
-j.[/QUOTE]
No you're reading it right, though I may be doing it wrong. Please smack me with a 2x4 if my plan is flawed!

I thought I could take any template, start at any fret I want, count up 12 and have my 12th fret position, and doubling that length (plus a little compensation), get the saddle position. Is that incorrect?

Dennis
Author:  RayH [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:19 pm ]
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Dennis,


Off the top of my head I believe that Tony Karol (just ask Bruce Cockburn) builds a pretty awesome baritone as well as Brock Poling...


Maybe a good idea to pick their brains before you start any frettin'Wink


Ray
Author:  Kevin Gallagher [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:04 pm ]
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    I've always liked a scale length of 28.5" for a baritone guitar and have one
in the works here right now with it. The one I'm building has Brazilian
Rosewood back and sides and a German Spruce top and will be tuned from
"B" to "B".

    I played a few with 29" and one with a 29.4" scale length and all felt great
and worked well in alternate tunings off of their baritone tunings.

    The 28.5" just feels right to me and has been what my customers have
wanted.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:28 pm ]
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Matt Mustapick, who may be a member here and is one of Uncle Bob's customers makes a killer baritone.

check it out:

http://mustapickguitars.com/db/7/index.htm
Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:44 pm ]
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I'm sorry, my math is off...

Checking out the fret distances, using the StewMac fret calculator

First, I check out the fret distance using a 34" scale length. I see that the 3rd fret is at 5.410" , so (34 - 5.410 = 28.59") I'm not sure where I got the 28.38"; 28.59" should be correct.

To check, I input a 28.59" scale length in the fret calculator, and look at the fret spacing (1.605, 1.515, 1.430, 1.349...)

Going back to the 34" scale, and looking at fret spacing starting at the 3rd fret, I see 1.605, 1.515, 1.430, 1.349... so they appear to be dead-on, compared to starting from 28.59".

If there is something wrong with my thinking, please give me a wake-up call. I'd really be ticked off if my baritone guitar was completely wonky.

Ray, yes, when all else fails, read the instructions, and if that fails, find someone who knows what they are doing! I have been in contact with Matt Mustapick (who made Don Alder's baritone), but did not mention how I planned to derive the scale. I'd love Tony's input, and I know Brock won't talk to me 'cause I just beat him on an Ebay bid!

Ken - I'm sorry to hijack your thread! Hopefully, something in my tangent will help you too.

Dennis
Author:  Rick Turner [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:02 pm ]
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You can start with the nut at any fret position you want. Count to 12 and double it, then bump for intonation, and you're golden.

We make a fair number of semi-hollow acoustic-electric baritones in six and 12 string models and also a nylon string.   We go with 27" on those as we're not trying to drive a top, and that's a very comfortable, guitar-like scale.   We generally tune them a fourth down, B to B.   I love them, and I'm making a koa bari 12 for myself.   
Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:16 pm ]
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Thanks, Rick.

A baritone 12! Please get some sound samples up when you finish it. I suspect it will sound awesome.

When you say "Koa", do you mean a Koa-topped Koa? Or a Koa box with something else up on top? I've been wondering if a stiff top (like Lutz Spruce or White Spruce) will be counterproductive for enhancing the deeper bass and mid bass of a baritone. Looking at what some of the *successful* acoustic bass guitar builders have used, maybe Redwood, Western Red Cedar, or a floppier Spruce will work better?

Dennis

Author:  Rick Turner [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:32 pm ]
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Well this one is semi hollow with a koa top, back, and sides. There's a western red cedar center block in it, and the neck is graphite reinforced maple with a Brazilian rosewood 'board.

I'm also working on El Giganto...an 18" wide ultra jumbo Brazilian/bearclaw spruce bari 12 acoustic that will have a graphite reinforced solid ebony neck.   Why? Because I can...

I hope to have that one done for Montreal.

It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings...
Author:  KenH [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:41 pm ]
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Thanks for all of the good answers!  I guess the next question is about nut widths, saddle widths, string action heights?


 


One of my repair customers is having a baritone built by another OLF'er and I am curious as to why this guy thinks the baratone is something he wants. After listening to some of the sound clips of baritones, I can see why he wants it. Guess I am going to have to schedule in a baratone guitar somewhere along the line, just so I can say I have built one.


 
Author:  j.Brown [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:31 pm ]
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Dennis, yes that sounds better...I was going off of your 28.38".
Ken, baritones are really in a class of their own in terms of sound. They really stand out well in a group and have a really nice presence.
Rick, I'm fascinated with the 12 string baritone idea. Any photos?
Thanks.
-j.
Author:  Rick Turner [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:28 pm ]
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I'll take some pics and post them.

A baritone 12 string is what Leadbelly played. His Stella had a scale length of around 26.5, and he used heavy strings.   I've checked pitch and can detect him tuning anywhere from C down to Bb.   To me, that's what a 12 string should sound like.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:17 am ]
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Bruce Cockburns is a 28 inch 14 fret on a hondo hog/sitka trad jumbo body .. I also made them 29, but have settled on 28.5 on my own jumbo shape, which I call a Solo. I also put CF into the neck along side the Allied two way rod, which helps even out the response, no dead spots, and improves the sustain - Stephen Bennett played my last one here at a gig in Toronto, and was blown away, he almost couldnt put it down, but alas, had the harp thing he likes to play with him .... I love the way these things can really growl down low. My personal one is underway, a multiscale 27.5 to 28 5/8 Solo, koa/sitka. It will be in Montreal.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:31 am ]
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I'm building a 27.5" baritone right now. It is on a deep bodied OLF SJ.

For intonation, will 0.10" work for compensation?
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