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Bioblends
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=14720		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ziegenfuss [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:49 am ]
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In the latest issue of Plastics News, there was an article on "bioblends"...The process of seperating wood fiber from the cellulose content, and then infusing the fiber, between20-50% of it, into a common plastic, like polypropylene. 


A guitar company, flaxwood, (www.flaxwood.com) from Finland, then uses this to injection mold its guitar bodies.  They claim that the consistency of the material will positively influence tonal characteristics, etc...


I just thought that it was interesting.


Stephen
Author:  Pwoolson [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:05 am ]
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[QUOTE=Ziegenfuss]

They claim that the consistency of the material will positively influence tonal characteristics, etc...


I just thought that it was interesting.


Stephen

[/QUOTE] I think Ovation said the same thing some years ago. Hmmmmmmm.
Author:  j.Brown [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:23 am ]
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Its probably more likely that the consistency of the material will positively influence the consistency of the tonal characteristics, not necessarily making a positive impact on tone.
Its an interesting concept. It sounds similar to the recycled decking materials that are being made these days.
I wonder how much of what I don't like about the Ovation is contributed to the plastic and how much is contributed to the shape...
-j.
Author:  Colin S [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:28 am ]
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I've said it before, but the very best sounding guitar I have ever played was the all-polymer guitar designed and made at Loughborough University here in the UK. Get the properties right and plastic or composites will do the job as well as wood. Ovation? well I know we joke about them but the top end instruments actually sound pretty good, certainly compared to other factory guitars in the price range.

Now would I want a plastic guitar? Errm, no.

Colin
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:27 am ]
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In my own thought processes I found myself immediately biased toward traditional guitars and materials - wood.  And like Colin I would not personally wish to have a plastic guitar.

But perhaps it is time to once again consult with our old friend the blind guitarist?

Imagine 100 years from now if tonewood was to difficult to obtain.  On a forum such as this people would be talking about using their side molding machine or welding on a bridge.  Or one piece tops with integral bracing and bridge.  Oh the smell of cooking ABS in the morning.....

Things change and always will.
Author:  Colin S [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:37 am ]
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Hesh the one piece top with moulded in bracing is already here, as I said it's the best sounding guitar I've ever heard.

Colin
Author:  KenH [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:07 am ]
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I know we joke about them, but I actually own an ovation. It is just one of the many guitars I own and it is an upper grade "celebrity" series guitar. I bought it because at the time I was playing in a band that quite frequently played outdoors and I wanted something that could handle the abuse of playing "on the road" and also the wild humidity and temperature changes of playing outdoors. Of course I played this guitar amplified, so its acoustic properties wasnt all that important to me. I have taken it on cruises, played it in the middle of Georgia Pumpkin patches, block parties in the middle of the street, and played it in coffee houses where I kept bumping into the guy next to me because of the lack of elbow room. All in all, it has held up beautifully with no cracks, dents, or other problems.


The only problem I have had with it is that it goes out of tune when the temperature changes.
Author:  Ziegenfuss [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:24 am ]
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They certainly have their market...and I believe that is where the road forks between custom luthierie, and mechanized guitar building...
Author:  FishtownMike [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:13 am ]
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I have seen their ad's in a couple of the british guitar magazines. The way of the future? I don't think so. The way of the future will be Star Trek replicators that will be able to replicate even the finest Brazilian rosewood. I can dream can't I?
Author:  FishtownMike [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:17 am ]
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[QUOTE=Hodges_Guitars]

I know we joke about them, but I actually own an ovation. It is just one of the many guitars I own and it is an upper grade "celebrity" series guitar. I bought it because at the time I was playing in a band that quite frequently played outdoors and I wanted something that could handle the abuse of playing "on the road" and also the wild humidity and temperature changes of playing outdoors. Of course I played this guitar amplified, so its acoustic properties wasnt all that important to me. I have taken it on cruises, played it in the middle of Georgia Pumpkin patches, block parties in the middle of the street, and played it in coffee houses where I kept bumping into the guy next to me because of the lack of elbow room. All in all, it has held up beautifully with no cracks, dents, or other problems.


The only problem I have had with it is that it goes out of tune when the temperature changes.

[/QUOTE]
I had an ovation too and it saved my life. I was out on the fierce Colorado river rapids and I dropped my oar. So i reached for my trusty ovation and I paddled to saftey.
Author:  Ben Furman [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:09 pm ]
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I think the Flaxwood guitars are lovely.  I'd like to own one, but the exchange rate for the dollar vs. the euro just isn't what it used to be, y'know?...

The great thing about the material is that it's pretty much infinitely recyclable.  Most "recycling" is really downcycling.  That is to say, you seldom get exactly the same utility from the processed material as you did from the starting product.  The material will eventually will go to the grave, even if it's after a few uses.  The Flaxwood composite, which is manufactured by Kareline Oy, was designed from the outset to be recycled.  One company is making cups for outdoorsmen:

http://www.kupilka.fi/english/index.htm

I have a guitar made with material from an old barn.  It's a comforting thought.  Wouldn't it be interesting to imagine that your guitar had "lived" not just one or two but tens of prior lives?

From all acounts, the feel of the material is quite nice for guitar necks, and of course it's completely stable against moisture.  It also has a random appearance that seems a bit more "natural" than most composites.  I doubt it's resonant enough for an acoustic top, though.  Polypropylene is a high-damping polymer.

Interesting stuff!

-Ben
Author:  Ben Furman [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:35 pm ]
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FWIW, here's some fusiony stuff in a video demo:

http://www.youtube.com/fretdance

-Ben
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