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| Attach bridge before finish? http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=14630 |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:28 am ] |
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I've been following the book on finishing, scraping the finish and gluing on the bridge. I think some of you, Hesh included, attach the bridge before finishing. I'd like to give it a try. Are there good reasons either way? I will be using Colortone water-based spray lacquer. 
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| Author: | Colin S [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:43 am ] |
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I always attach the bridge before finishing the top, I like to give the top a gentle sanding and final tuning with the strings on and up to pitch. I always French polish though. My necks are detacheable as the fingerboard is glued to a neck extension rather than the top. With my lutes I attach the bridge before I glue the top on! Colin |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:47 am ] |
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I can only think of one good reason to glue a bridge on first .. that being, you can get ful wood to wood contact all round. But the downside is nasty IMO - you are going to get a valley of finish next to the bridge, almost impossible to sand and buff. Ig the bridge EVER needs to come off, you are looking at some finsih damge for sure, and on a top, not where you want to have any if you can avoid it. I used to chisel off the lacquer, but on the last guitar, I used the Nichols/John Hall die grinder router with an 1/8 inch bit to do it - it was amazing - no chipout of the top, no chipping of the lacquer edges, totally even route depth, easy to control. Simply put, I will never do it any other way - this way is just TOO easy. BTW .. Hesh only has his bridge area masked off before sending to Tony F for finishing .. bridge goes on after buffing out, like the overwhelming majority here. |
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:53 am ] |
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I routed off mine just recently but used the standard dremel, and the stewmac router base. Don Williams gave me a list of how to do it, and it worked flawlessly. Beats the chiseling/scraping thing, that's for sure. It's scary as it can be, but I'll be doing it again too. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:22 am ] |
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Thanks Coach Tony - I do indeed mask where my bridge will go prior to finishing. Cutting off the masking is very easy. Rich are you building a steel string or a classical?  |
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| Author: | DP LaPlante [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:41 am ] |
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I finish (lacquer or French polish) the entire top and then position the bridge utilizing either bridge pins (steel string) or locating pins (classical) to establish it's location. I scribe and mask (the entire top) and then use a stripping agent (Stripeze, Zip Strip) applied with an artist brush and using a 1/2" chisel lightly scrape to remove the finish, followed with a light clean up sanding with a postage stamp sized bit of 100 paper. This is totally undisruptive to the top under the bridge and provides a flawless finish to bridge juncture. |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:53 am ] |
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Hesh, I'm building a uke with classical foot. I have a bit of a valley where the bridge will go. I thought attaching the bridge would pull that straight, but I need to do it before I put the back on since I don't have easy access through the small sound hole. |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:54 am ] |
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I often glue the bridge directly to the finish. Works great. Polyester finish, superglue the bridge on with medium viscosity CA, clean up any squeeze out with solvent, string it up in two hours... |
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| Author: | Daniel M [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:01 am ] |
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Hey Rich... With a (free) fridge compressor & a bit of ingenuity, you can build a vacuum bridge clamp & never worry about soundhole size or location again. PM me & I can send you a couple of pics, if you're interested. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:12 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Rick Turner] I often glue the bridge directly to the finish. Works great. Polyester finish, superglue the bridge on with medium viscosity CA, clean up any squeeze out with solvent, string it up in two hours...[/QUOTE] Now you're cooking with fire! Any specific tips on that procedure, Rick? I know Larrivee has been doing it for awhile, and it seems like a great method given that the finish is strong enough, but a little secondhand info never hurts. |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:17 am ] |
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We've got our polyester finish system dialed in pretty well as far as adhesion goes, so it's just a matter of cleaning any buffing compound residue off very well, and then matching the dome of the top to the bridge glue surface, lining it up, and slapping that sucker on there. We did work at getting the finish schedule worked out so the finish itself sticks like glue. This way, we have a near perfect glue line with no gaps or weirdness at all, and what I like is that it's really easy. |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:25 am ] |
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Rick, I think superglue would do a melt job on the water-based lacquer and I'd have no adhesion? |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:52 am ] |
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Our system only works with polyester... The other methods mentioned here are appropriate for lacquer or French polish. Personally, I don't see why one would finish after putting the bridge on. To me, that's like trying to put on your underwear after you've put on your trousers...it's kind of bass ackwards... |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:56 am ] |
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Well you tape off the fingerboard before finishing. Whats the diff if you have to do the same with the bridge? |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:24 am ] |
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The difference is that you'll not be sanding level and then buffing the fretboard.... |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:35 am ] |
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If you're doing a French polish, you'll get better results putting the bridge on first than with any other finish. You'll really be pushing yourself to get the area closest to the bridge sanded and buffed without trouble if you use a lacquer or water based finish that youre hoping to bring it to a high gloss. I mask the area where the bridge and fingerboard will lay on the top, spray and work the finish to completion and then remove the masking material. Finally, i lay the fingerboard and bridge in place, holding them securely down and cut around their perimeters with a fresh x-acto blade. The remaining finish, which is typically between 1/32" to 1/16" wide is then removed with a small chisel providing a full wood to wood contact area under both. The masking material measures about .005" and provides a known thickness to sand the finish to before buffing, too. Use any method that works well for you and your tooling and abilities. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:39 am ] |
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Thanks for the info, now time to get some turkey. Have a great thanksgiving dinner all! 
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:37 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Kevin Gallagher] You'll really be pushing yourself to get the area closest to the bridge sanded and buffed without trouble if you use a lacquer or water based finish that you're hoping to bring it to a high gloss. [/QUOTE] Very true. As a complete beginner using FP, I find it's no simple matter to get good results working up to an edge (bridge, fingerboard). FP is typically so thin that it's really quite easy to (gently) scribe, scrape and sand to get a gluing surface for bridge and fingerboard. So I'd extend Kevin's recommendation to FP finishing as well- easiest to FP before gluing bridge. I know that the 'traditional' method does FP after gluing, but this may be a reflection of a system where 'finished' guitars were sent out to be finished...seems I've seen photos of 'the girls' doing the FP jobs somewhere. Cheers John |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:39 am ] |
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I forgot to mention that Colin makes an excellent point about being able to string up 'in the white' if you FP after gluing the bridge. When my FP skills improve to Colin's level (if ever), I'll use his system. Cheers John |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:22 am ] |
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I'd also been told, many years ago, that Larrivee had stopped gluing directly to their finish, after experiencing issues. Did they return to the method, or did they never, in fact, abandon it? |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:14 am ] |
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I am now doing my first french polish without gluing the bridge on first. It is harder to get everything level with the bridge on, but certainly not impossible and the more you do it the easier it gets. It was very very valuable for me to be able to get the top to where I thought it was ready and then string it up before finishing. Each time I realized more sanding was needed and I could do that without stripping off the finish. I am a little more confident now of what to expect before the bridge goes on, but for the first ones it was worth the extra work in the polishing stages. It is also pretty amazing to hear the difference between in the white and with finish even once you have it where you want it. Being able to string them up and know what the finish will do to the sound is another way to get as close as possible to a dialed in sound, although obviously it will change some as it is played in also. |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:53 am ] |
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Larrivee did stop doing it because of finish adhesion issues. Our finish schedule is different, and I have no problem with adhesion. I've not had a bridge glue failure with this as long as the finish is well cleaned of any buffing compound residue. |
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