Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi folks,

i expanding my workshop at the moment and i realy need to think carfully
about a new bandsaw and planer/thickneser (jointer in the states).

my current axminster 18" bandsaw is great and resaws cocobolo like it
was spruce but i do get some chatter and nowhere near the smooth cut i
would like (it cleans up with two pases through the thicknes sander)
So my aim was to keep that for a general ripping,cutting small
components and general shop work whilst upgrading to a specific saw for
resawing backand sides and roughing out billets etc.

I had my heart set on a laguna resaw master but after getting in touch
with them i was told that ther are no european distributors so they could
not realy help allthough they may be able to get one sent directly from
italy for me at a high price.

This got me thinking so i did my research and found out that a company
called meber make all there bandsaws.
http://www.meber.com/E_Prodotti.asp
I conacted them and they say they can supply with an equivelent meber
brand machine at about the same price of the resaw master including
shipping.

my question is this does anyone have any experience with this brand i
know they a good rep for quality but dont know anyone who has one.
any recomendations would be great.

next up is a planer i only have $2000 to spend at the moment so it will be
an intermediate model untill i start making some money but it will have to
be able to handle 8-9" wide billets to face and edge them ready for the
resaw etc.

I am currently using a felder in a cabanet makers workshop opasite me
and that is a wonderfull machine so i may try get one of those.

I would love to hear what you folks use especialy the sponsers that have
to process alot of wood etc.
and also what are your favourate shop machines (thickness sanders etc)

Also please take into consideration that i cant get alot of the proucts that
you can in the states over here(so no grizly laguna etc).

Thanks in advance for you thoughts and comments on this matter its
important to me that i make the right decisions on this.

Joel.

This may not be the answer you're seeking, but my first thought about the
bandsaw would be to spruce up your old one. If it has the power and the
capacity along with a good table and reliable fence, the rest is just details. If
you could get a good guide system like a Carter or Coolblocks system, then
invest in a blade like the Lenox Trimaster, or even a professionally welded
Morse Quicksilver blade (much more affordable, and pretty darn good), your
Axminster could very well produce a much better cut. Just a thought.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

thanks david,

i do use lenox blades and they are pretty good they do give me a good
cut and i can cut backs accuratly to 3mm.

I have allready gone down the route of upgrading and do get a very good
cut but i have yet to upgrade the moter to a bigger one.

The reason i am thinking about getting a new saw is becouse i am
currently cutting upwards of 20 sets a week

if this saw was just for shop work i would stick with it but i need to get a
saw that will handle lots of work for a few years and the axminster just
doesent have the welly (its made by the same company as jet by the way)

Thanks for the comment i will definatly keep them in mind,

Joel.

Joel I have a Laguna which I like very much. The best feature is the 5 hp rated Baldor Motor. The guides are the best I have had on any saw and I have had quite a few.   Most decent saws with the right blades, guides and good setup will do a good job. To me the key is the motor. I'm not sure what motor comes with the Meber but I would make sure it is a good one with enough power.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

You will not regret getting the Laguna.

If it's strictly for resawing, buy a resaw.   I got a Baker AX horizontal saw with a 20 hp motor and hydraulic conveyor belt feed with a powered hold down. That thing has been a money maker.   I use Timberwolf ASS blades, though the Lenox is great, too.   I hate the Laguna carbide blades; they were a $500.00 plus mistake...

i don't have anything to add on bandsaws, but you mentioned a jointer in your post...the carbide tipped spiral cut with the individual square blades/teeth leave an absolutely incredible surface.
-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

[QUOTE=ToddStock] Byrd Tool helical cutterhead retrofit - the little lines are maybe .001 deep and sand out easily. Nice when doing abrasive woods...$350 for a 6" and $450 for an 8".[/QUOTE]

I second or third or whatever the helical jointer head thing. If I'd known there was such an affordable retrofit option, I might not have had to pay as much for my jointer. I have a General helical head 8", which has given me nothing but stunning results, but I think there's some serious change to be saved on buying a quality straight-blade jointer and retrofitting it.

I also have the Laguna 16HD bandsaw, which has also given me great results (as have their thin-kerf blades, but they gum up easily so I only use them on Brazilian). I don't know that you'll get much value in the Resaw King over the 16HD for the price (except the more smartly-placed dust collection...).

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Thanks for your coments folks,
I am going to think hard on this one,
Rick you are right if its specificaly for resawing i may as well go for the
industriel resaw.

Meber have a uk showroom so i can get down there and have a look.
If the mebers dont impress i will look at the minimax saws and if that
doesent work i will go for the hassle of getting a laguna shipped from italy.

Thanks for all your input folks i will keep your comments in mind when
buying,

Joel.

I don't know if anyone makes a horizontal resaw for the European market, but if you're serious about resawing, this type of machine really makes a lot of sense.

I cut on backing boards made of MDF. This allows me to go very thin on cuts without any danger of hitting the conveyor belt or the blade hitting any parts of the machine.   The saw is set to cut off the bottom of the billet, so in effect, the conveyor belt becomes the fence.

I dont believe that Meber produces any horizontal resaws.  For about 15 years in the 1970's and 1980's I used to import European woodworking machinery to the US.  I have not been involved in it for quite some time but do know that Seyna in Belgium does produce horizontal resaw bandsaws.  They tend to be large industrial saws much bigger and more powerful than most Baker models and are overkill based on your current useage but if you contact them they will know who in Europe produces smaller Horizontal resaws.

There are a number of sawmill manufacturers in Europe that have in the past 8 years or so have been adapting their horizontal sawmills to horizontal resaws.  I dont know of any in particular but Serra in Germany is a well respected manufacturer who will know who builds a horizontal resaw.

That should point you in the direction of finding a suitable horizontal band resaw in Europe.  Rick is absolutely correct when he states that a saw like the Baker is the right way to go and is a moneymaker..you will never want to use a vertical resaw for production work once you have used a horizontal resaw.

In Europe, I'd look at one of the various resellers of used industrial equipment and look for a reconditioned machine, whatever you do. We have tons of those lying around. A bit of googling should reveal a european wide network of used industrial machinery dealers (can't recall what it is, and can't find my bookmark any more).

I ended up paying about 1000 euros, total, for a very well kept, single owner 16" Italian saw (20 years old, but in perfect condition) and a new electronic VSD so I could run the three-phase motor. 25cm resaw capacity, and no problems, although I haven't exactly pushed it terribly hard yet. Soon, though. Soon...

Joel which Axminster saw do you currently own? I've got the 5hp 3ph SBW6300 and fitted with the Aligator blades I get from Heathfield it handle anything that I want. Axminster do now also have a Re-saw machine the HB600 which a friend of mine has just got (he was using my machine before for large quantities of oak). He did a lot of research before buying this saw the superb Axminster service was one deciding factor.

Whatever you go for make sure that you have got a 5hp motor, most smaller machines are underpowered, this will probably mean a three phase supply or a converter.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=Mattia Valente] In Europe, I'd look at one of the various resellers of used industrial equipment and look for a reconditioned machine, whatever you do. We have tons of those lying around. A bit of googling should reveal a european wide network of used industrial machinery dealers (can't recall what it is, and can't find my bookmark any more).
[/QUOTE]

Here is a good one

e-IMRs International Machine Register

I bought my heavy duty cabinet saw from a dealer in Denmark on this list, it worked great. I paid a lot more to ship a Biesmeyer fence from the US than to have the saw shipped here from Denmark...

I plan to buy a wide belt sander from someone on this list when my new shop gets organized, there are some serious deals there from time to time.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Arnt...that is a good resource for European equipment...a number of the manufacturers are ones that dealt with and imported to the US market.  For Wide Belt Sanders the finest in the world in my opinion is Butfering.  They are from the north of Germany and are expensive but amazingly precise.  They make a sander that detects the direction of the wood parts that is sanding for things like wood doors and have sanding belts at right angles and sand that section using the belt in the appropriate direction with amazing precision (+/- .01mm).

For those Europeans familiar with some of the brands of European Woodworking machinery, the ones I brought to the US were:

Ayen- Drilling machines for dowel construction cabinets, automatic glue and dowel inserters, and knot hole defecting machines

Hess- cabinet, window and door clamps

Joos- Veneer presses

Kuper- Veneer saws and splicers

Mayer- panel and veneer saws

Butfering- wide belt sanders

Altendorf- sliding panel and table saws

Brandt- edgebanders

Striebig- vertical panel saws

Weinig- moulders and knife grinders

Colin,
I have the axminster sbw5300 and it is underpowered for what i am
doing.
With the upgrades i have done and lennox blades i can cut 9" wide
cocobolo to 3mm thick accuratly.
But i got this saw when i first started doing this and was on a student
income.
Now that i am doing this on a production scale i have to upgrade.

Rick i realy like the idea of a horazontal bandsaw and i assume it would
serve me well for saing small logs also.

I was looking at axminsters new resaw and also mebers virtical resaws.
Basicaly i think its worth paying the extra cash if its going to working
hard for me.
I must say however that horazotal resaws are a little intimadating so i will
probably go with a vertical resaw.

Thanks for the input folks much apreciated,

Joel.

Yes the 5300 is a bit low power at 2hp for full scale work, we have been cutting 12" oak on the 6300 that I've got, and a 1.5tpi blade. If your going for more power though, you'll almost certainly have to go three phase.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Todd, I've only very rarely seen a motor over here more than about 3.5hp that would run on 240V, our standard mains voltage. The bigger motors, certainly those designed for industrial use are all 415V 3Phase. Having three phase run to most domestic premises would be prohibitively expensive, so a static or rotary converter would be required. My big saw has a 5hp 415V motor running on three phase, I have an ex-military rotary converter, which I bought quite reasonably, a new one to run a 5hp machine would be about $2000!

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

To add a bit to what Todd mentioned. A 5 HP 240v single phase motor is going to draw close to 20 full load amps (nameplate should give you the FLA on your motor). The NEC(US) requires motor circuit conductors to be rated at 125% of the FLA of a motor, although you want to make sure conductor length and voltage drop will not be an issue (short branch circuits could work with #10cu wire, but #8 is probably a better bet to avoid voltage drop issues). With a motor circuit you are allowed to size your breaker(inverse time) to 250% of the FLA, and for Dual Element time delay fuses 175% of the FLA to avoid nuisance tripping when the motor starts(starting inrush). Most like to use between 200-250% on inverse time breakers. So a 40-50 amp inverse time breaker would be a good choice. Motor circuits are unique in the way they are sized because of the starting currents. A regular branch ciruit(not a motor circuit) conductor is sized to the load, and the breaker is sized to protect the wire at its rated value. Most common circuit breakers are not rated to carry its full rating indefinately (20amp breaker with 20amps of load). Most are rated to carry 80% continuously (although there are some breaker that are specifically designed to carry 100%, but they are spendy).

So as Todd mentioned, a 40-50 amp circuit breaker with #8cu wire would be great for a 5HP single phase motor.

Peace,Rich

[QUOTE=Colin S]Having three phase run to most domestic premises would be prohibitively expensive...[/QUOTE]

Most (all?) new power lines into domestic houses in this county are 230V 3 phase. We take our normal single phase power from either 2 of those 3 phases, but in addition we of course can use the 3 phase power "as is". Most of my big stationary machines have 230V 3 phase; most of these 3 phase motors can be wired for either 380V or 220-240V, and it is very simple to change the wiring if they come set up for the wrong voltage.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I am moving to a new workshop which is wired for three phase so thats
another problem sorted.

One of the reasons i got my first saw was becouse my workshop was in in
my home so three phase machines were out of the question.
Under the circumstances its seved me very well.

I think its worth borowing some extra cash from the bank to get things set
up properly as the machines etc will pay for themselves much more quickly.

You have all given me much food for thought many thanks,

Joel.

No, in the UK it's 240V single phase only to domestic premises, they normally will not run 3 phase to non-industrial buildings.   But, as Joel has this already run to his new shop then he is good to go.

Colin

[QUOTE=Arnt] [QUOTE=Colin S]Having three phase run to most domestic premises would be prohibitively expensive...[/QUOTE]

Most (all?) new power lines into domestic houses in this county are 230V 3 phase. We take our normal single phase power from either 2 of those 3 phases, but in addition we of course can use the 3 phase power "as is". Most of my big stationary machines have 230V 3 phase; most of these 3 phase motors can be wired for either 380V or 220-240V, and it is very simple to change the wiring if they come set up for the wrong voltage.[/QUOTE]

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.