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After having a bizarrely hard time getting a new hose for my Crapsman Shop-Vac, I'm looking at the highly rated Festool CT 22. Reviewers seem to love it, but so far I haven't seen a person who got one on their own dime say whether they think it is worth the high price tag. With the cheapest attachment set (base price of $450 only includes a hose--no nozzles) it's over $500 at the best price I can find. All the things people say about quiet and well thought out and easy to use with tools resonate with me. I hate how hard the Crapsman is to maneuver, the cheap hose, the noise, and the mess of emptying it out. Still, the Festool is 5 times as much as a decent basic shop vacuum.

Worth it? What about the new Festool "midi"? Where in the Festool line is the sweet spot for value?

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Howard buddy I have a CT-22 HEPA Festool dust extractor and love the thing.  Is is the single best tool/shop purchase that I have ever made.

The CT-22 is 134 CFM and the MIDI is something like 94, that is the primary performance difference.  Both are very fine machines, engineered to last, very quiet, and superbly versatile in the shop.

I even use mine for thickness sanding.

Also, When I bought my CT-22 it was to replace a Crapsman, and the Festool is probably half as loud and twice as powerful.  It is also a HEPA filter and not just a dust strainer.

I have also noticed that the Festool performs closer to stated specs longer regardless of the condition of the bag.  When I used HEPA filters on my Crapsman it very quickly lost suction.

I have had mine now well over a year so ask way and I would be very happy to answer your questions.

BTW I paid for mine so my opinions are based upon someone who wondered if thing was going to be worth it too.

In short - I am thrilled with the thing and would marry it if I could

I bought the MIDI this week a day after buying a Shop-Vac Quiet Series.
After plugging the Shop-Vac in and working with the CT-22 at the
woodworking store I frequent, I realized the MIDI was for me.

On full power, I wouldn't say half as quiet as the Shop-Vac, but noticabley
more quiet. Set to low, my sander is the louder of the two and didn't
leave any dust on the surface or in the air.

The suction is fantastic. The website lists the CFM being less than the
CT-22 as Hesh mentioned, but the guys at the store said in reality it
wasn't much of a difference. If the extra $100 isn't too much of a hit, I
would go with the CT-22 for more capacity.

I got the Festool because it would work with my Festool sander. I didn't
try out the Fein's, but they were in the same price range as the MIDI and
the guys said they were great, too. I went with the MIDI over the Mini
because the extra gallon of capacity was worth the $30 price difference.

Built in HEPA filter, but replacement bags are a little on the annoying side.
A 5 pack is $18 and the non-replaceable bag is $130. I think I should be
able to pour the dust out of the Festool bag and into a plastic trash bag
easily enough.

I spent $330 on a vacuum this week and don't regret it. I never thought
I'd be saying that. Any of the vacuums in their lineup should be fantastic.

I've never used a Festool product, so I can't comment on anything but the
specs they claim. That said, I would look around at some of the more
conventional industrial vacs.

I have a Dayton 4YE67 commercial vac, and it is much quieter and much
more powerful than any ShopVac or Crapsman of course, and much more
compact as well. It is the smallest one they have, which since all my big
tools are ducted in to a dust collector I don't need much capacity in a
shop vac.

The CT 22 you mention lists 134 CFM and 90" static pressure, which
seems like a pretty good balance, but it only has a 1" hose. Static
pressure may be important if you're going to be using it as a wet vac, but
if you're pulling dust from tools or the floor I think more CFM through a
larger hose may be more important.

I would give a serious look at some of the Dayton industrial and
commercial systems before putting money down on the Festool system.
They have quite a range of single and double stage vacs, from high CFM/
lower pressure to vise-versa and everything in between. They range from
around $200 to over $1000, but they have a number of very good ones in
the $300-$400 range. I think you may find something as good or better
there for less money. Plus most of them accept more standard filters,
available in a wide variety of micron sizes and often cheaper. I couldn't be
happier with mine.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

David my hose is NOT 1".........

I have a 2" hose........ for hook-up to my machines and using the Festool as a vac and a 1" hose for use with the Festool ROS.......

Geeze it's bad enough that we are losing the game to Brock's team (OSU) so I tune in here and get told that I have a 1" hose.........

And this from a fellow Anorborite?????

[QUOTE=Hesh] I am thrilled with the thing and would marry it if I could
[/QUOTE]

Maybe in Vermont, but I'm not completely sure what the laws are...

_________________
http://www.presnallguitars.com

I have a CT22

Cheers

Kim

I just took some 6" wide spruce bracing stock from .8 to .7 on my new
Performax 10-22 without any dust in the air and very little left on the
surface. When I wiped my hand across the spruce, there was just enough
dust to very lightly outline the lines of my palm. I used a series of
1.5" to 2.5" and 2.5" to 4" adapters to connect it to the sander.

I work on my patio, so I also decided to test the volume. With the volume
on high, I went inside and closed the single pane sliding glass window.
Just a light hum with the MIDI about five feet away on the other side.
Volume is a big concern because most of the neighbors are elderly. I try
to make as little noise as possible.    

Thanks for the comments so far. I'm also looking at the Fein Turbo III. Its advantages seem to be that it is quieter, and has a bigger diameter hose that may work better for chips and other shop debris. But a HEPA filter needs to be added.

I did look at Grainger, thanks David. No decibel ratings, and I'm not sure about needing two-stage, but I'm looking into them.

Hesh, when you say you want to marry a suction device, I'm a bit concerned about your conjugal happiness.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

[QUOTE=fmorelli] FWIW, I'm a big German engineering fan.[/QUOTE]

Obviously you've never owned a newer model Volkswagen....

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Consider the following:

http://www.dustdeputy.com/

I just ordered a big 3 HP High Velocity Dust collector from these guys just for my CNC machine, but I might add one of these "Dust Deputy" gizmos to my want list, too. You'd be amazed at how much fine dust can be precipitated out of the air stream in a properly designed cyclone.   

Sure Filippo I am happy to help.

I have the Festool non anti-static 13" 2" hose running from the vac to my Performax or any of the other machines I have i.e. band saw, belt sander, small band saw.  I have 2" adapters on every machine so it's plug-and-play here at Heshtone.  When I am not using a specific machine I hang the coiled hose back on the vac.

The anti-static hoses are more money but I got away with not purchasing one on the hunch that the near constant 45% RH in my shop would negate the ability of the dust to cling to the hose - and I was correct.

All the various adapters were off the shelf at Woodcraft and Woodcraft was also handy because they had most of my machines on the floor so I could just find adapters to fit the machines there.

Here are some pics that I posted in the Festool ROS thread of my set-up.





Filippo buddy your research is excellent and I will add that the Festool Vac has a "switched" outlet on the front for connected tools such as the ROS or even the Performax if your circuit can handle it.  Turn the ROS on at the ROS and the Vac starts automatically as well.  the inverse is true when you stop the ROS, the vac stops too but only after the vac runs a timed 5 additional seconds to remove any residual dust after the ROS stops.  Also, although this is ROS related - turn the ROS off and set it down before it has stopped and the pad stops automatically, the vac runs for five more seconds, and it all just works great.

There is much more to tell too like the bags which are not expensive in my view at under $20 for 5 of them.  These are the Mercedes Benz of vac bags.  They include an attached, air tight lid so that when you slide the bag up a few inches to remove it from the vac you can flip the cap on the opening and have a completely contained throw away package.  I would not want to attempt to use these bags over again however in as much as the paper that the bag is made of is part of the filter system.  Although you certainly could stand there and attempt to empty a bag the paper is compromised and the vac will not operate at the same efficiency of just using a new bag.  At something like $4 per bag, and I get one complete guitar built per bag, it's chump change when you consider the excellent performance and convenience of the system.

On the back of the Festool vac is a green handle.  This handle is attached internally to a brush that sweeps the inside of the intake of the vac clean.  Although I have never noticed a difference after using the green handle it is there is you suck something larger into the system and it gets caught in the intake of the machine.  So far I have sucked up my 12 mm finger plane twice and my 18mm finger plane once.  All three went directly into the bag..........  They say the difference between "dumb" and "stupid" is you are dumb when you make a mistake - you are stupid when you make the same mistake twice.......

Additionally when you open the machine up to change the bag the machine is spotless inside - always.  It's amazing.

And lastly if you wish for move the vac around it moves like a dream.  The very large rear, load bearing wheels and the completely swiveling front wheels and moves with very little effort and turns on a dime.

Hesh, the product specs clearly say 1" standard hose, so I'm guessing you
either got an upgrade or you ordered of those miracle hose enlarging
devices somewhere. I thought those things didn't really work.

And Howard, unfortunately you're right that they don't give any decibel
ratings for the Dayton systems. Mine is wonderfully quiet, but I can't
vouch for any of the larger systems.

Part of my preference is admittedly based on a general bias that that tools
marketed to industrial buyers are often more honestly listed in
specifications and more appropriately priced than those marketed to
general public. There are certainly tons of exceptions, this probably being
one of them, but I'm used to comparing things like a 5hp Ingersoll Rand
air compressor to a Campbell Hausfeld "5hp" compressor. An often unfair
bias, I know, but what can I say.

I also like the more affordable filters, which are available as HEPA rated,
though I have to guess that would cut the air flow down from the
standard specs. It sounds from the reviews that the Festool stuff delivers
everything that it claims. I just wonder if the price/performance ratio and
cost of accessories may be better with Dayton Industrial stuff. I dunno.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Well, David, there's horsepower and then there's horsepower...Clydesdale vs. Shetland pony...   There's nothing quite like the horsepower I get from big old 480 volt 3 phase motors, and new ones can be a wonder, too.   The 5 hp HKS spindle on our Techno CNC machine is quieter than a Dremel, even when spinning a 3/4" bit.   

Folks I thought that some just taken pics might do a better job at explaining this than my literary prowess, or lack of same, might.

David it is a 2" hose inlet.  Smaller hoses are available and if you take the time to go to www.festoolusa.com you will see the tremendous amount of accessories that are available, in stock for these vacs.

OK - Here is how mine sits in my shop (note the 2" hose - why else would a guy be adamant about having a 2" hose and put it on the Internet if it were not true).  This means that the inlet is 2" too........ 

There are 4 optional things on top of the vac.  right on top of the vac is the optional hose caddy, it works great although I am not using it in this picture.  The threes boxes are the systainers which I thought were crap until I bought a tool that came with one.  You can stand on these things and they are very convenient for storage in a limited area.



Here is a side shot, note the quality wheels.  This is contractor grade equipment.



Here you see the systainers that detach from the vac, or latch back onto to it in a second or two.



This systainer came with the best cordless drill that I have ever used.



A back shot with the machine opened up.



Here you can see the dual HEPA filters.  If you want to use non HEPA filters they are available from FestoolUSA too.  I changed my filters the first time after building 5 guitars but noticed no increase in performance and the old ones did not appear to be dirty.  I was just being to anal probably......



Here is the machine with the hood up.



I disconnected the bag to show you the integral cap.



The backside.



And the clearing handle (green) on the backside.



Prior to taking these shots I did NOT clean the machine.  This is what it looks like in use.  Running this machine cleans the air in my entire shop since it has the HEPA filters.  Lots of comments have been made on the OLF about how clean my shop is - this machine is the reason why.

I hope this helps.

Hesh, your posts are better than any of the reviews I have read on this machine. It's still on my XMAS hope for list!

I had to think about the following before I wrote it.  I am going to challenge some ideas here, respectfully, because I disagree with some of the comments that have been made here.

The original question was if anyone here has any experience with a Festool CT-22.  I most certainly do and I am happy to help if I may - always.

Rick you are very big on reminding us about your very high degree of lutherie experience and your point is very well taken by most including me.  Experience counts.  Regarding the original specific question I have experience, over most of the time that this machine has been on the market.  You don't.

Consumer Reports was well known, and publicaly faulted, for consistently rating a specific brand of television as not the best buy.  Although they did rate the picture and quality at the top - the higher price of this one brand decreased the over all rating.

Some people, me included, believe that if I am going to stare mindlessly at something for 5-10 years I would like to think that I am seeing the best image available.  If it costs more - so what.  And if the quality is up there arguably it may indeed not cost more over time.

My situation is not an industrial shop.  It is my home and first and foremost my greatest concern is my health and those around me.  I also have allergies as well.  HEPA filtration has been in my home for over 10 years as a result.  So.....a HEPA rated, quiet, quality vac for my guitar building is a good match for me.  I could also make that case that for those who have been exposed to wood dust far longer than I perhaps HEPA filtration should be even more important to you?  This is said out of concern for everyone's health.

In my opinion this vac is the best available and now with over a year of fairly heavy use it has performed flawlessly in all respects.  Since I am also in TAS mode the idea that this vac is the heart of an ever expandable system where circular saws, jig saws, ROSs, and who knows what else in the future seamlessly work with this vac is attractive to me.

There are indeed more powerful, larger even industrially rated machines available.  But the question was does any one have a CT-22.  The answers that I provided to the questions asked here are answers that were derived from direct experience with this machine, Festool, and guitar building.

Call it a Shetland pony if you wish but my shop is so very clean that you won't find me stepping in anything.......

Peace - out.

Oh yeah....  There is a foot in there, sorry I was in a hurry to provide the info here.  And yes it is raining, snowing, and COLD..........

Good to hear AZ and I have my fingers crossed for you too.

Guys, no need to get so worked up over vacuums. Write about your
experiences and trust readers to be discerning. Lets try to keep fights
down.

James buddy no one is worked up here  I have some things, positive, to add to the directly asked questions in this thread and that is what I am doing.  If my ideas conflict with others, and we don't agree, the challenging of ideas, with facts and experience, is what its all about right?

I'll say it again, this machine, the Festool CT-22 has been the most satisfying tool that I have purchased for guitar building.  People most certainly may make up their own minds as I would most certainly do too.

I see no fight here - period.

Peace

Hesh, did something I said seem like criticism? I was merely pointing to an accessory that could go between the Festool vacuum and tools that might improve the performance of the whole system, especially using it with the Performax.

Actually, based on your reviews and the others I've seen of the Festool gear, I'm considering some of these tools for my small shop in Tasmania.   Thank you for posting this. The Festool tools aren't cheap by any means, but it looks like this sander could eliminate my desire for a noisy compressor and air tools.

Thanks Rick this is greatly appreciated.  I did feel as if the effort that I was going to, which was extensive BTW, was not being considered for what it was - trying to help Howard with his original question.

But that's OK and I recognize that your style is very matter of fact, what works is what counts, and I appreciate that, and you, very much as well.  I am learning and needed to learn faster prior.  Sorry about that.

Thank you for this post and I will add that I have had some conversations with our bros in OZ about purchasing Festool here and sending it Priority mail to them.   It's good stuff and for a small shop where you have to be sure that the tools that you select are the best available I believe that you would very much appreciate Festool.

I actually have a ShopVac Industrial, one of the stanless steel 10 gal models.  They are 185 cfm according to specs.  I also have a dust deputy, like Rick mentioned.  The combination is unbelievable.  Since I got the Dust Deputy, I have not had to clean the filter on the Vac.  All of the fine dust and the particles stay in the cannister of the Dust Deputy, and never make it to the vacuum.  I do not have a thickness sander, but I use it with my 4x36 sander, my drill press thickness sander and Safety Planer, as well as with my band saw, and radial arm saw, plus general clean up.  I have been amazed at how efficient the Dust Deputy is.  I would recommend it highly.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Thanks for the photos, Hesh. Very helpful. Where did you purchase the 2" hose? I have been under the impression a smaller diameter hose comes with it. And that accessories like a floor nozzle only come as kits, not single pieces.

I will not be using a shop vacuum to collect dust from any stationary machines, and probably not much for portable machines, either. I want it for vacuuming the shop floor, work tables, and the parts of machines that a central dust collection system misses. So thanks to those who gave the general dust collection advice, but my purpose is more limited.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

You are very welcome Howard.

I bought the 2" X 13' hose from www.festoolusa.com and they had it to me in 2 days with standard shipping.  As Filippo pointed out the prices are the same as in the stores.  All my other accessories came from there too and the assortment of available accessories for these machines is something like 7 pages long......  Festool did an excellent job of providing all the various adapters, wands, brushes, hoses, organizers that one would ever want.

I think that the 1 inch hose did come with my machine but I bought it in a combo package with the Festool 5" ROS.  I am not sure if any hose comes with it or which hose comes with it on it's own.

OK, nix that I just checked out the Festool site and it does come with the 1" hose but I would recommend the 2" hose for use as a vac.  The 1" hose is to connect to the ROS and other Festool tools.

I also bought a kit that contained a wand, floor brush, hand wand and two hand brushes, and a crevice tool.