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Selmer oval hole - anybody build em?
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Author:  Kirt Myers [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:53 am ]
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I've been a Django Reinhardt fan for years (see avatar), so now after buying a mold and plan from Brock during the swapmeet I'm going to attemp to build one.   

I've been on the internet trying to find info and I will probably buy Michael Collins book eventually, but I was wondering if anybody on the forum has any experience with these?

Any thoughts, opinions, problems, tips, etc. on their construction would be greatly appreciated.

Author:  Kirt Myers [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:36 am ]
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Hmmmm, how about a picture, everybody likes pictures.

You can get this one for $26,500. 1946 serial #625.

Author:  Shane Neifer [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:13 am ]
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Kirt,

Michael has just completed shooting a DVD series on the construction on these rigs, including laminating the sides and all of that. I think he told me that it is like 6 discs or something. Anyway, he is hoping that they will be availble from Stew-Mac and LMI by Christmas. Might a good stocking stuffer!

Good luck

Shane
Author:  douglas ingram [ Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:04 pm ]
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I did one recently.  I have the Francois Charles book, which was an inspiration.  I was captivated by the Birds Eye maple, solid headstock oval hole model, so that's what I built.

Your questions are pretty broad!  how can I respond?

They are a lot of fun to play, quite a different sound from what you're probably used to.

I can post a picture if you like.
Author:  Kirt Myers [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:36 am ]
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Thanks Shane & Douglas,

I'll be looking for those DVD's

Douglas, here's some more specific questions, if you please...

Where did you get the Francois Charles book? I hear it's out of print.

Did you use radius dishes for top and back? If so, what radius did you use?

Did you use the 670 mm scale length? How's that on the fingers?

What kind of strings did you use?

Who did you get your tuning machines and tailpiece from?

Did you laminate the sides or use solid wood?

I'd love to see a picture of your guitar.

Thanks,
Author:  douglas ingram [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:27 am ]
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Douglas, here's some more specific questions, if you please...



Where did you get the Francois Charles book? I hear it's out of print.


My In-Laws were visiting my wifes brother, who happens to live in Paris, so the went on a little day trip to the Charles's shop.  They actually enjoyed the errand because it took them to a part of Paris that is not an obvious destination.  They did not meet M. Charles, but had a nice visit with Madame Charles.  I was only expecting them to pick up the plans, but, what with Christmas and birthdays on the calandar, the decided to treat me!  Its a great book.

Did you use radius dishes for top and back? If so, what radius did you use?


No, I didn't radius the top.  That isn't how they're done.  There is a pliage, or bend, in the top, just below the bridge.  I made up a work board out of MDF, its two pieces with a miter where the pliage is located, and braced underneath.  Some people will use heat to bend it, some will score the underside, like a tiny kerf slot.  I don't like the idea of the scoring method.  Secure the soundboard on top and leave it as long as you can to help the pliage "set".  The braces will secure it , again, later.  Spruce has a fair bit of springback, so expect that.



Did you use the 670 mm scale length? How's that on the fingers?


670 it is!  I wasn't about to start mucking about with the plans.  The D-Hole version has a much shorter scale length, so if scale length is an issue, I'd suggest that guitar.  I still plan on doing one.  Funny thing about the 670mm scale length, it carries higher string tension, so the strings can be set lower.  That, coupled with the zero fret, makes for a very playable guitar.  Due to a spinal injury when I was younger, my left hand is very weak and lacks dexterity.  As a result, there are many guitar that I can't play, this one, I can.


What kind of strings did you use?


You can get the proper brand, I know Elderly's carries them.  I'm pretty sure that I used d'Darrio lights.  I don't like changing strings as often as most, I like the sound better after they've been played in a bit.


Who did you get your tuning machines and tailpiece from?


LMI.  The tailpiece is a beautiful thing!  Its possible to get a cheapo version, but after all the work of building, a good tailpiece really sets it of.  I used gold Gotoh vintage tuners, with the oval buttons.


Did you laminate the sides or use solid wood?


I used solid.  While I could have laminated them, the Maple guitar used solid construction.  The other Selmer models used laminated.  Either method works.  The only hassle that I had was getting the cutaway bent.  I expect that a heating blanket would have helped, I have one on order now!  Build it the way you will expect successful results.


I'd love to see a picture of your guitar

Enjoy!  (OK, so I put up more than one...since when is one ever enough?)
Author:  Steve Walden [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:58 am ]
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Douglas - A gorgeous guitar!  I like your 'wireette'.  Is it made of copper wire set in black epoxy and sanded to get the varied wire widths?


The heel flush with the cut-a-way is a reallly nice touch.  The sound port design and execution is excellent.



Hey, I just found out the emoticons were scaleable!
Author:  douglas ingram [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:14 am ]
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Steve,

Copper in epoxy, exactly.  I had some challenges figuring out how to get what I wanted, like keeping the wire in place!.  I didn't want precise machine-made looking lines, I wanted a bit of organic variation, but not so much that it looked wonky.

Thanks for the kind words, but I don't want to hijack this thread, its not about me.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:17 am ]
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[QUOTE=WaldenWorx]

The heel flush with the cut-a-way is a reallly nice touch. The sound port design and execution is excellent.

[/QUOTE]

The heels on these are a complicated and beautiful affair, meeting up with the cutaways so well. I'm pretty sure that's how they were originally done. Here's a shot of one of Mike Collins'

Author:  douglas ingram [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:31 am ]
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Except that Mike's has a taper to it, the originals were straight sided. Nice heel, all the same.

The trick with getting these heels "right", is to not make them chunky.  The guts of them are inboard of the guitar, leaving you the freedom to keep the fine.
Author:  MSpencer [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:38 pm ]
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Very Nice!

Mike
White Oak, Texas
Author:  Kirt Myers [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:40 am ]
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Thanks Doug, for taking the time to answer my questions.

Your guitar looks great. I remember seeing that rosette here before. What's your top made of?

I can see a Michael Collins book on my Christmas wish list. That's cool that your in laws were able to pick the Charles book "in person". From the photos on his website, it's a beautiful shop.

I don't have the plan in front of me, but am I right in saying the soundboard is flat on either side of the 6 degree "pliage"? Also, did you use heat and/or moisture to create the pliage?

Thanks,
Author:  douglas ingram [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:14 am ]
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Thanks, Kirt,

I think that I posted a photo of the rosette in a thread called "unusual rosettes", or something like that.  I'm really happy with how it turned out and how it looks with this guitar.

The top is some Sitka that I had on hand, not even a high grade.  I had used a top from the same cutting before with decent results, so I went ahead with it.  It still sounds good.  If you want to be really authentic, you should use Euro spruce.

Yes, the soundboard is basically flat above and below the pliage, as in the sides of the guitar are straight along the top edge.  The bracing imparts shaping across the lower bout (quite a bit), but the pliage is the big part lengthwise.

I forgot to mention previously that I made up two workboards.  One as described to work on the top face up, and another, the inverse shape, so that I can work on the to pace down.  I use the face down workboard to bend the pliage and to glue in and shape the braces.  I use the face up workboard to work on the rosette, etc., although you can do that before you bend the pliage.

I used heat and moisture to do the pliage.  I'd like to try a hot pipe and hand bend it.  What I would suggest is to prep a top, bend the pliage, and set in the workboard as early as possible so that the pliage  "sets" better. 

As your aways off from actually starting the instrument, I'd suggest practicing on some scrap, working out how you want to do the pliage.  The point of the pliage should be quite specific, a fairly small radius, not a big gradual bend.

I'm glad that Michael's book came out after I built mine, I don't think that I could have afforded it before!  What's really cool about the Francois Charles book is the breadth of the Selmer product range.  It all began with the Macafferi classical guitar, and expanded to include a fairly conventional classical, a tenor, Hawaiian, harp, and the D hole and oval hole jazz guitars that we best know the Selmer line for.

Be careful, these guitars are addicting!

I still want to build a D-hole and a Macafferi classical.  One of these days...
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