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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:45 am ] |
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For the classical builders out there - how much spacing do you leave under the strings at the first fret? I'm trying to refine my nut-making. Jim |
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| Author: | Bill Bergman [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:22 am ] |
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If you subscribe to GAL Lutherie there was an article within the last few years by RE Brune refining this down to different heights for different strings. Even if you do not want to be that precise, you might want to take the advice of Jose Ramirez III who is rather adamant that both the nut and the saddle should be built too low, and then shimmed to proper height. He is of the opinion that trying to make these exact discourages owners from having the adjustments with shims that make sense to compensate for individual playing style or the gradual changes in the shape of the guitar with time--especially the lowering of the frets when they are dressed. The nut can be shimmed with pieces of paper from a business card or index card, and the saddle with wood veneers. So, you do not need to refine the nut making, but simply shim it. White paper card cut to size does not show under a white nut. You might be able to combine the advice of Brune and Ramirez by making the different string heights that Brune recommends, but keep it close to the fret. Then shim if necessary. |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:58 am ] |
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Bill - Thanks. It's AL 79. He puts the 1st and 4th low - he says at the level of a zero fret, and each subsequent one .001 higher. (i.e., 2 an 5 .001 higher than 1 and 4, and 3 and 6 .001 higher than 2 and 5). That's fine tuning - the thinnest blade in my set of feeler gages is .0015. |
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| Author: | Ray Pepalis [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:42 am ] |
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Wouldn't a paper shim under the nut tend to absorb some of the string energy? Ray |
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| Author: | Kristopher10 [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:51 am ] |
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I would tend to think putting paper under the nut would not be the best thing either for the reason already stated. To set the nut I usually press down on the string at the second fret until there is barely any clearance from the 1st fret and the string itself. This has worked very well for me and is very quick and easy. No measuring needed...Good luck. |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:32 am ] |
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I read Brune's directions, and realized that the directions would also be there in David Schramm's Hauser course. David said the same thing as Brune, but the interval for successive strings was more like .002 to .003 (on average) rather than .001. I went with the low end of David's range. All done now. Back to French polishing! |
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| Author: | Bill Bergman [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:07 am ] |
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If you are reluctant to use paper, you could make some very thin wood shims by whatever method works for you. I think the efficacy of shimming might be more relevant to the saddle, where there is a lot more variation in "feel" among players, relative to string height, and also some tops flex a lot under tension and the bridge height moves. I haven't checked back to the Brune article, but is the definiton of the height of a zero fret the same to everyone? The few guitars that I have seen with a zero fret all have a slightly higher zero fret than the other frets. What is the starting height from which to measure the various string heights? |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:24 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Bill Bergman] I haven't checked back to the Brune article, but is the definition of the height of a zero fret the same to everyone? The few guitars that I have seen with a zero fret all have a slightly higher zero fret than the other frets. What is the starting height from which to measure the various string heights?[/QUOTE] Good question. I went with Schramm's suggestion of 0.003 for the first string. If you used that, then Brune's numbers would add up from there. |
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| Author: | Shawn [ Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:51 am ] |
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A piece of copier paper such as you would use at home for a computer printer is between .002-.003 so you can use that as a feeler guage and get close enough for the differences in strings. I would not shim under the nut or saddle if it can be avoided. It can definitely absorb string energy and is a crutch. It is better to make the nut and saddle too high and then work them down to the clearance you want than to start off by using a workaround. By the way, one of the things that Jose Romanillos does with his nut that I have recently adopted is a taper wedged nut. Jose loves tapers as a way to hold things in place so when I saw that he makes the slot for his nut tapered like a sliding dovetail shelf would be held in place, I tried it and it really holds well. The face of the nut closest to the fingerboard is square to the centerline and the fingerboard but the back side of the nut is tapered .1-.2mm thinner at the treble end than the bass end and the slot for the nut is also tapered. The tapering of the slot can be done quickly with a needle or other small file and the nut is easily sanded to get the taper to fit well. This allows the nut to be removed as needed later and also shows craftsmanship. If the wedge is fit tight the nut can be put in without glue. |
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| Author: | DP LaPlante [ Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:38 am ] |
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Shawn, Hauser I also used the tapered nut fit on his famous 1937 guitar. It was actually beveled from both the peg head and fretboard sides. I agree with you about appeal of this approach and it is typical of the elegant simpliciy of Jose's design concepts. Best! |
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