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Remarkable Bandsaw Upgrade!!!
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Author:  charliewood [ Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:19 am ]
Post subject: 
OLFers
I was out with the missus yesterday as she happened to be going by the House Of Tools - so I decided that stopping in couldnt possibly hurt, well anything except my wallet that is.
I managed to get away generally unscathed, however having only spent $300... and I acquired some much needed additions to the shop - a couple bandsaw blades(1/4 and 1/2), some HotStuff CA and accelerator, a Bosch Colt,
and I saw the Grail of my random searchabout hanging innocently on the wall -
BANDROLLERS!!!
I have been have one heck of a time with my bandsaw - and while admittedly I am no expert with bandsaws... I have taken pains to become educated, as extensively as I could possibly be on setup and maintenance of them (reading books, watching videos on setup etc)..
All in order to try and diagnose the problem I have been having, which has been thus:

When I would push the wood through the blade - (at any feed rate) - the stock would have to be turned practically 45deg to the left side to make sure it would make cuts in a straight line,,,
I tried everything to fix this
from tightening the tension, tweaking the guide blocks in every possible configuration (with respect to the blade and its depth, its play, etc)
and with the thrust bearings... same thing!
Blade position on the wheels,,,etc > uggghhh
Endless tweaking!
Nothing really seemed to work, and I thought the blade might be pooched
(as much as that seemed illogical considering the problem, it was the only thing I hadnt tried)
and although it hadnt seen that much use,,, it was the cheapo one that came with the saw...
When I got home and couldnt resist throwing the BandRollers in right away, and give her a spin..

Lo and Behold I have never seen such a striaght cut on this machine... and clean too!!!!
It was repeated with several feed rates and different hardwood chunks, and worked like a charm even when I loaded it...
I have heard people say that band rollers arent much of an improvement, or are not worth the price in terms of the improvement.
I respectfully disagree!!
They worked a treat for me.. and I am much much happier about the prospect of using my bandsaw for fiddly-er work with tighter tolerances now... whereas before I couldnt trust it that much...
I thought I would put this out there for anyone who might be considering an upgrade to these but wasnt sure, or needed more input - I find them to be an amazing performance upgrade!
Cheers
Charlie
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:33 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=charliewood]   BANDROLLERS!!!

When I would push the wood through the blade - (at any feed rate) - the stock would have to be turned practically 45deg to the left side to make sure it would make cuts in a straight line,,,
[/QUOTE]

This just doesn't make sense...what were your blade guides before changing over to the roller guides? How were they aligned? What blade tension did you use?

I'm no expert on bandsaws but my 14" antique Delta uses ceramic guides and cuts as straight as can be. I'm not denying that installing roller guides is a quality upgrade, but having to skew your stock so radically must be an indicator of something more basically wrong with the setup.

I'll be interested in hearing the experts chime in here.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:44 am ]
Post subject: 
If your stock needed turned 45 degs. (WOW) to align with your blade travel the your set-up is out of wack. the rollers may help but i too suspect the issue has more to do with tension, wheel rubber, blade tracking position on the wheel rubber, feed rate all play factors. Each type of guide system have their advantages and each have their faults. You can have your guides, no mater what kind set-up perfect, and if the blade is tracking of the proper position on the wheel it will drift. I too like bearing systems. but I don't think this was your problem. I suspect when you did the change out you also unknowingly changed the real culprit that was causing 45 degs of drift.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:53 am ]
Post subject: 
It was the blade change. Charlie was still using the blade that came with the saw.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Charlie-
Glad to hear the roller guides help with the tracking issue!
I`ve got a Grizzly with roller guides, and I still need to adjust the fence for `lead`(not 45deg, though!). The blade is the first place I`d check for a problem of this kind- especially with some of the original equipment blades that come with the saws. BTW, Tony Karol recommended R&D (TufTooth) bandsaw supply in Mississauga to me, and they`re really good- and good value. I like their `lil ripper blades, and I notice they`re on special for $25 this month. Their shipping charges are very reasonable to BC as well.

With those guides and a good blade, you should have an easier time with the bandsaw- make sawdust!

Cheers
John
PS: If you`re souping up the saw, sometimes a tension spring upgrade can help as well. I was helping my neighbour tune up his older Chinese bandsaw and we found that the tension adjuster only had a couple of inches of thread cut in it, and couldn`t pull a slightly overside blade to full tension. 5min with a die fixed that problem. It`s always something- some of these tools should have the word `kit`in the name!!
Author:  douglas ingram [ Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Sometimes the entire guide assembly can be out of line.  Check its installation.  I use a General bandsaw and the guide assembly is held onto its post by a set screw.  The assembly can be rotated on its post, if needed, and I use that to my advantage.

A crappy blade is a guarantee of a life of misery.  I find that a 1/2" 3tpi gets used for about 90% of what I need to do.

I also set the tracking first with the guides out of the way and the assembly as high as it can go.  This leaves me with only the blade to deal with, first.  I make sure that its set on the wheel first, and that the fence is set to run a parallel cut.  Make sure that you use fairly thick hardwood so that the blade has something to work on.  Only then do I set the guides.
Author:  charliewood [ Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:35 am ]
Post subject: 
45deg was a "little" bit of an exaggeration - but it was massive skew - a level of drift not within reason.. let put it that way!
I tried different tension, more and less... checked the wheel tracking - the rubber is fine, and of course the guide block adjustments, the throw bearing adjustments,
it(the blade) just seemed to wanna twist under load,,,
I dont know what the problem was, but I suspect it has alot to do with the crummy RIDGID blade that came with the saw, I wanted to use it until it was played out - even though it was really bad quality,,,
There wasnt a huge selection of blades at the place I was shopping,, so hopefully these are OK at least.... they are "Olson" brand and are made in US...
Ill let you know how they go.. as I said I have little experience with bandsaws although Ive used every other saw in creation pretty extensively... these are a bit more finicky thats for sure...
Thanks for the input - it really seems to be working well now - cutting straight and running much more quietly..
So far Im impressed,
BTW I wasnt reccomending the bandrollers as "a fix" for my particular problem - just saying that it seemed "to fix" the problem I was having, for which I was glad.
Cheers
Charlie
Author:  KenH [ Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 

Does anybody know of a good site with a video on tuning a bandsaw? My Jet works fine, but I go through blades like water.. most of them break way before they are dull...


it cuts good, straight, and clean, but does make alot of noise that I blame on the top wheel bearing. I cant find any play at all in the bearing though. Would be nice to compare notes with someone who consideres themself a bandsaw expert.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Spending a bit more and buying my General was one of the best tool choices I ever made.  Rock solid with a cast iron frame.  Everything worked right, right out of the box.  I've worked it hard in a full time shop for 15 years, and its still in great shape.

I wouldn't say that I'm an expert, but I know my machine pretty well.  I find that new blades will be more prone to break if they are too thick for the wheel diameter. 

For example, my saw is supposed to take a 3/4" blade.  I used to use those for resawing, but have since found that 1/2" blades work better on this saw.  At tension, the big blade would vibrate ominously on the return and the whole machine would shake.  The thicker steel (and the vibrations?) seemed to cause premature blade breakage.

Now, only my old blades break, but rarely.
Author:  Jamie M [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Does anyone (mostly my fellow Canadians) have any experience with Craftex
Bandsaws from Busy Bee? They just had an 18" bandsaw on sale for a very
good price which I was tempted to get. I've always gone with the buy good
tools and buy them once...but when I look at my 15" General Planer, I
wonder if it's a bit of overkill.

Jamie
Author:  douglas ingram [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:41 am ]
Post subject: 
I used a Busy Bee bandsaw for a time, while doing some work at another shop.  It was a Delta knock off.  My thoughts on it? this particular machine was junk.  I missed my "real" saw so much. 

I have no idea if there is any relation to the saw that you're considering.

Check the rigidity, the solidity of the wheels, how well they turn, the solidity of the table and the guides.  Its not a complicated tool, it just needs to be solid and align-able.  Stay away from wheels under 14" diameter, remember that the blade was to wrap around that wheel with every turn, can it take the bend?
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:26 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Jamie M] Does anyone (mostly my fellow Canadians) have any experience with Craftex
Bandsaws from Busy Bee? They just had an 18" bandsaw on sale for a very
good price which I was tempted to get. I've always gone with the buy good
tools and buy them once...but when I look at my 15" General Planer, I
wonder if it's a bit of overkill.

Jamie[/QUOTE]

Hey Jamie,

The import stuff has gotten a lot better. I had a planer and a few other tools from busy bee that I bought about 20 years ago. I have since replaced them all. I have used a 20 inch Craftex and was pleased with it's operation. So that you are aware, craftex tools are pretty the much the same as Grizzly, that is the reason you can't buy Grizzly in Canada and you can't buy Craftex in the US.

Shane
Author:  Rick Turner [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:32 am ]
Post subject: 
If you're really serious about upgrading a bandsaw, you should know this site:

http://www.carterproducts.com/

Of course as I look at the kit for the 14" Delta I have, the upgrade kit costs more than the saw did!
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:48 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Shane Neifer]
So that you are aware, craftex tools are pretty the much the same as Grizzly, that is the reason you can't buy Grizzly in Canada and you can't buy Craftex in the US.

Shane[/QUOTE]
Grizzly and BusyBee do have an 'arrangement', it's true. (Free trade?...not)
I had a good look at the Craftex/BusyBee 14" knockoff CT081 before I bought the Grizzly 0555(I was travelling though the States). The Grizzly was cheaper and the quality is better, as far as I can see, and the Grizzly has better guides, and a tension release lever to boot.
I've got a Craftex 16"- CT082 and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. It's more like a bandsaw kit than a working tool. Terrible guides, the fence didn't fit properly, you have to remove the fence to switch blades, etc. etc. I've got it working OK now, but it took a lot of time I'd rather have spent on other things. That said, if I'd waited till I could afford a $3000 saw, I'd still be waiting!

The 20" Craftex saw seems to be a different design.

BTW, Grizzly do honor their warranties across the border, unlike some of the car manufacturers.

Cheers
John
Author:  DannyV [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Jamie,
I bought a 16" Craftex from Busy Bee. Brought it back for a number of
reasons. I made the mistake of letting them talk me into the 18". Got it
home(2 ferry rides) and it also proved to be unsuitable for a number of
reasons. The one thing positive I will say is the service people in Vancouver
are good and I had no trouble returning it. It's soured me on Craftex which
is too bad because it's a good price point and I know some of the stuff they
make is not too bad quality. And we don't have as many options in Canada
as our Southern Bros. I'm now thinking Powermatic for an 18". Anyone have
one?
Author:  grumpy [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I made a set of guides from some scrap lignum vitae some time back to replace the metal ones in my 14" Delta. I had just replaced the 1/4" blade and while adjusting everything, the blade touched one of those  metal guides and took the set right off one side(it would have drifted like Charlie's if i had kept it on). I said t hell with it, and made new guides....
 Took 15 minutes to make, and they're great. Lignum vitae is a waxy wood that is very hard and has been used as bearings in hyrod electric turbines and submarine propeller shafts for decades...
Author:  Jamie M [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the input guys. I guess you do get what you pay for...so I best be
saving my $$. I should have clued in when the clerk at BB told me I could fix
my planer handle (key stock needs repair) with plumbers tape!?!

Maybe I'll stick with General - at least my shop will match!

Jamie
Author:  Larry Davis [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
You get what you pay for and sometimes less. I like to keep this handy for the times I'm considering a "bargain":

The Common Law of Business Balance is a meditation on price attributed to John Ruskin. It reads as follows:

“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”


John Ruskin
1801 - 1900
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Larry Davis]
The Common Law of Business Balance is a meditation on price attributed to John Ruskin. It reads as follows:
..snip....
[/QUOTE]
Interesting quote, Larry.
I notice that the Wikipedia entry for this quote adds the following comment:
"A classic quote on the possible folly of automatically choosing low cost at the best way to make a purchase. This appeals to those who believe or who want to make others believe that price is an indicator of quality."

It may also be useful to remember that Ruskin was born wealthy and stayed that way until he died.

In my post about the BusyBee/Craftex tools, I forgot to add that I own some other BB tools that are excellent performers, if a bit rough on the cosmetics.

Cheers
John
Author:  Steve Walden [ Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

Grumpy said:"I made a set of guides from some scrap lignum vitae some time back to replace the metal ones in my 14" Delta. ....(snip)....Lignum vitae is a waxy wood that is very hard and has been used as bearings in hyrod electric turbines and submarine propeller shafts for decades..."


I used to deal with a company based on an island off of the coast of Maine... Woodex Bearing Co.  They made bearings out of wood.
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