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Just yesterday I was sitting at a bar over at my sister's house. My cousin's had cancer for several years, way off in Wisconsin. I was talking to Rick and he broke down sharing about his wife's disease. The prognosis was heart-rending, her cancer was back and then came the words, "Inoperable." At 62 this grown man choked back tears, and all of us around the bar were blown away at the news.

What I'm wondering is, what do you say at a time like this? I know people who are fighting a killer disease don't want to be pitied but rather desire empathy. Some of you who've dealt with this life-threatening and sometimes incurable disease, can you help me out in what to say and do for them? TIA.

Just a side note, I know of three OLFers right now who are battling cancer. It's a beautiful day here in Arkansas, the sun is shining, the birds are singing, and I'm heading out for a Sunday drive over to my Mom's house. But these are some of my pressing thoughts today.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

You know Bruce, that's one of the hardest questions you can ask. So many things we say at those moments sound so cliche'. No words ever seem like right or enough in these circumstances. The best thing you can do is listen more, and talk less. Be there. Be a friend. Give support. Give them a hug. Tell them you love them and are here for them should they ever need to talk or hang out or whatever. In these times, it's more important what we do and how we listen than what we say...
But I don't know...every person is looking for something different. Some look for comfort, others for hope. Some just need to talk about what they're feeling, to be given the opportunity to be angry, or sad, or whatever is going on inside them without turning someone off to them. At that point, the best we can do is remain steady and faithful to them as a friend and allow them the latitude they need.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Sorry to hear about your cousin, Bruce.

It took me quite a few years to get an inkling of what to do in times like these. Now I don't say much, like Don says, I just BE there, and ask if there's anything they'd like me to do for them, anything at all. Sometimes you just end up offering a shoulder for them to lean on, sometimes bring a meal, sometimes just time and space for them to talk.

I sort of recall a movie scene with Wilford Brimley. I think he was a pastor or something. Someone asks him what does he do when a family loses or is about to lose a loved one. His reply was, "I make the coffee." I always thought that was so poignant, as if to say he's just there for the family. A friend of mine who died of cancer years ago, a friend of his came over and just mowed the lawn. Didn't say anything, just saw it needed doing and did it.

My mother-in-law, who had become a great friend, passed away a month ago. It was heart-warming to see how their friends gathered around to help my near-blind, near-deaf father-in-law. They were just there for him, and still are.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Bruce,

I am so sorry to hear about your news.

My wife is just completing treatment for Cancer. Fortunately, the outcome looks pretty good. What one of our friends did for us was to get a list of friends and family and schedule meals for us during and just after Chemotherapy. It has been the toughest year of our lives, but people want to help, and this lets them take care of us in a way that has made a huge difference. Like Pat's excellent story - which illustrates that Love is a Verb so, "Make the coffee."

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

Bruce - I, too, am sorrowed by you cousin's prognosis.  The others are so right.  There is nothing to say that can take the pain and sickness away.  Yet, a listening ear is most often all we can do.  I am a praying man, believing that we can come before a loving God and make our requests known.  And He is faithful and just to hear our prayers.  Sometimes He answers them the way we want and sometimes not.  So, I ask Him, on your behalf, to give you peace and rest and an understanding, comforting spirit to listen and respond to your cousin.

And I will be praying for him as well.

Steve Walden

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Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

You know, Don has good advice where he says, "listen more and talk less".
When my mom had cancer I got so very annoyed of everyone telling me "oh, my uncle Larry had cancer" , or " yeah, my sister had cancer". (Come to think of it, I just did the same thing about telling you of my mom. But to make a point...) I honestly think people want to have someone that will really listen to them and they couldn't give two shakes about uncle Larry. If they don't want to talk, just let them know that you'll be thinking of them and praying for their piece of mind.

I read this thread when Bruce posted it and I knew at once that Bruce, being a very fine human being, was deeply troubled because he cares.

There is another way to think about how to help those you care about, love, know, your friends and family when cancer or any terminal disease strikes.

When someone we know gets cancer they are not the only potential victim by any means.  All who care about them are now at great risk of being depressed, saddened, and getting the blues.  In addition these feelings of helplessness when we all want to help but at times  there is nothing that we can think of that we could do to help.

What you can do when you know someone with cancer is be sure to do what it takes to keep you strong and even as happy as you can be under the difficult circumstances.  Your sick friends, family, associates, mates, will be depending on you to be steady with them and demonstrate to them that they are indeed cared for and they are not harming you by the worry that you will have for them.

So..... what this means to me is that you need to understand that you too are at risk of not necessarily cancer but being negatively impacted by the grieving, worrying, and again the prevailing feelings of helplessness.

Have you ever seen some elderly married people who one of them dies and sure enough very shortly after the other one dies when they were not even previously sick?

Be strong, do the things that you love to do, hug your families, and remain as happy as you possibly can under the circumstances.  You will be depended on by your sick friends and family to be a "constant" for them and know in advance that this may be one of the most difficult things that you will ever do.

This is why there are support groups for not only cancer victims but for friends and families of cancer victims too. 

My point is to try to not feel bad, not let it get you down, head up high, and just be the steady, quality people that I know many of you to be.  It will be hard, an understatement, but laugh with your loved ones and try to laugh often.  Make the time left the best time that you have ever shared with your friends who are now sick.  Remember that they are alive for now and still very much the people that you know.

Also understand that the state of mind of the victim is very important to their continued survival.  Happiness is contagious and if your genuine caring can include maximizing the fun times, funny things, helping the victim stay upbeat, you will be making a contribution that is very powerful and with some scientific studies to back this up, actually helping them to survive.

An extraordinary example of this is the story of Norman Cousins.  Check it out on Google, it's not Internet crap, highly documented, and very well known in some circles.  A positive state of mind for the victim AND their friends and family can result in buying time which may lead to new cures and in some instances, like the example of Norman Cousins - save the life of the cancer victim.

But it's OK to feel bad and there is nothing wrong with anyone who does feel bad.  Some things just totally suck......

And if the end comes another thing that you can do for the victim is to let them know that you will be OK.  Victims worry about their loved ones too, an understatement, and knowing that the ones that they care about will be OK when you are gone will help them to go in peace.

I've got a great friend (lives in another town) whose wife died about a month ago. She was a nurse, in apparently good health, (55 years old) and she had a stroke in the middle of the night. She woke Glen up and told him she thought she was having a stroke and she was gone by the time the ambulance arrived. I hadn't seen them in about three years but I, of course, made the funeral and talked with Glen for a long time. About a week later he called and asked me to come visit and bring my guitar (he plays fiddle). Well, we spent that night sitting out in his carport, talking and playing, and I felt like I had helped to comfort him. Everyone needs something a little different, but we all need know that others care and there is someone to turn to.

Listening IS much more important than talking, and in many cases, all that is needed, is your presence.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Thanks everyone for your heart felt responses. My heart really goes out to those suffering with the disease.

I think often of the three OLFers with their prognosis and difficulties they face. It really didn't hit me how much these illnesses hit family and friends. That is precisely what I'm feeling.

I told my Mom today that we needed to take a road trip over to Wisconsin to see her neice, my cousin, and for you praying types, her name is Linda. And, her husband's name is Rick, and their kids are Richard, Kiki, and Denise, they're all hurtin'.

Thanks all, you've been a great help.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Bruce:

I know what the "shell shock" of that kind of news feels like. They'll all be in my prayers, too.

Don Williams makes good sense and, for what it's worth, he lives it as well as he writes it.

Bill

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

[QUOTE=Bruce Dickey] Thanks everyone for your heart felt responses. My heart really goes out to those suffering with the disease.

I think often of the three OLFers with their prognosis and difficulties they face. It really didn't hit me how much these illnesses hit family and friends. That is precisely what I'm feeling.

I told my Mom today that we needed to take a road trip over to Wisconsin to see her neice, my cousin, and for you praying types, her name is Linda. And, her husband's name is Rick, and their kids are Richard, Kiki, and Denise, they're all hurtin'.

Thanks all, you've been a great help.[/QUOTE]
BD if you make it up to WI, drop me a line. I'd love to meet you in person.

Bruce,

It's knowing someone, especially family, is there to give love and support that braces the sick and their loved ones. Actions speak volumes when words fail you!

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DES - Shepherd, MI

Thanks everyone. Steve, I'm sorry to hear about your wife. Truth is, it's a fairly common malady. I really appreciate all the good thoughts fellows. My Mom is 80 and reluctant to travel, but I think it's something we should do.

Paul, You and I are on the same page buddy. You can bet if we pull off coming to Wisconsin we'll swing by Madison. My cousin is in Waterloo. I loved the trip up there back in '84 to the Oshkosh Fly-in, biggest in the world.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

I had cancer while rather young (I turned 21 while I was sick) but I don't think age has much to do with the experience. My diagnosis was not decidedly terminal, but the percentages were not in my favour.

I think the 'I make the coffee' line hit it on the head. Presence was the biggest thing, for me. It's a profoundly lonely experience that noone can truly share with you, especially if/when you get really sick, and the best thing to do from the outside is make the person feel loved/needed/respected. Believing you still have worth, in whatever state your body may be in, is absolutely important. The best thing to say to the person who is ill is 'I value you', and besides that just be there to help out or listen (that second part applies equally to supporting those who are very close to the person who is ill).

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Thank you Bob. Walter's thread is evidence folks need each other. That got moved over to the Main Discussion forum, which I applaud. There are times when I just don't know how to respond and it's been greatly helpful to hear these heart comments.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

While at this point my cancer is not life threatening but is bad enough That I must take care and treatment to keep it from becoming so, and from experience with family that has scum to cancer, I can tell you that the truth is we would rather have almost any other discussion at all. Not That we fear the discussion or the the malady for that matter. But rather we (those of us dealing with it and immediate family) would prefer to talk about life and the things we are doing and or going to do despite the cancer.

No one, no mater how caring can have enough understanding to really touch the core of our thought processes concerning the affect or anything to do with the disease.

I don't mean this to sound harsh, because we want conversation. But about the world, our lives, The things that gives us pleasure, not the cancer.

The battle is ours to fight and we do so with convection. What we need from those around us is a sense of normality. Give us an outlet outside of the disease. Fore this is truly great medicine.

Thanks Michael, that's what I needed to hear. Thank you for chiming in. We really all have to enjoy every day. My cousin said "There are no bad days." I know he means every day longer he has with his wife is a good day.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

[QUOTE=MichaelP]While at this point my cancer is not life threatening but is bad enough That I must take care and treatment to keep it from becoming so, and from experience with family that has scum to cancer, I can tell you that the truth is we would rather have almost any other discussion at all. Not That we fear the discussion or the the malady for that matter. But rather we (those of us dealing with it and immediate family) would prefer to talk about life and the things we are doing and or going to do despite the cancer.



No one, no mater how caring can have enough understanding to really touch the core of our thought processes concerning the affect or anything to do with the disease.



I don't mean this to sound harsh, because we want conversation. But about the world, our lives, The things that gives us pleasure, not the cancer.



The battle is ours to fight and we do so with convection. What we need from those around us is a sense of normality. Give us an outlet outside of the disease. Fore this is truly great medicine.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Michael - this represents how I feel exactly as well.

And thank you Bruce for caring

Hey, why don't you guys come over and build a guitar with me?

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

[QUOTE=Bruce Dickey] Hey, why don't you guys come over and build a guitar with me? [/QUOTE]

Bruce If I can find the time to get away I would be there in a flash my friend

You know we still do need to put together a Greater Southwest regional OLF Get-together

[QUOTE=Bruce Dickey] Hey, why don't you guys come over and build a guitar with me? [/QUOTE]

I would love to Bruce buddy but I am kind of far away..........

Odessa, shucks that's just ten hours drive one way. And ten back. We could build for four hours straight. I'll put on the coffee.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Oh hey Hesh, I don't know how far it is to Ohio, where do you live?

Michael, well, I know the LINTers pretty well cover Texas. The ASIA deal at Springfield was pretty close and I didn't even make that.

Seems like Dave and someone was talking about it there in Okie Country? We may just have to video-conference? Which I know nothing about.

Some of our jobs allow us to be more flexible and mobile. I guess that's why a Saturday one shot deal works so well in localities. I had a lot of fun at both Arkie Get Togethers. I'm all ears.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Wow guys, I really had no idea we had that many folks right here dealing with this. My heart goes out to you guys. There's always coffee brewing in the Williams residence if y'all are ever up this way too.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."