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Finish Cracking Technique
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Author:  Dave-SKG [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:19 am ]
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Anyone got a good techique for cracking finishes?


I believe I once heard Dan Erlewine talk about using one of those computer air cleaner cans and opening it up directly on the finish. Seems like that would be an expensive way to do a whole guitar. I think Tom Murphy used to paint them on for a while...that's too tedious for me. Some one else said to toss the body in the freezer...I think he was joking.


Anyway, My customer wants their brand new finish, I just sprayed nitro, Cracked. Any Ideas?


TIA
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:20 am ]
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P.S.


This is an electric guitar - a tele. Finished in Black Nitro.
Author:  DannyV [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:30 am ]
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Sounds like a job for Martha Stewart. You might try asking a dedicated paint
store that knows there products well. I know there is some faux finishing
technique out there for that look.
Good luck, Danny
Author:  Marc Lupien [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:45 am ]
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I heard that some people "designed" the cracks using an exacto
knife...  Yep, one at a time!!!  And then, to give them an
aged look (for example on a cream finish) dirty oil was rubbed in the
cracks...
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:43 am ]
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The freezer idea is not so far-fetched.

Years ago, I did a 'free repair' on a cheap guitar with a heavy sunburst. I didn't know what I was doing, but at least I didn't ruin anything valuable. Attempting to match the dark sunburst color (black) with tinted lacquer, I applied many coats over a few days. It looked great- thick and glossy, just like from the factory. The owner (kid brother of a friend) put it in the trunk of his car and drove it to Timmins, Ontario (up north) in January - this was before global warming had kicked in. He was moving, so he left it in the car for a few days before bringing it inside.
The lacquer was a mass of crackling- absolutely amazing in depth and extent. Unfortunately, it wasn't really the effect he was after ( in those days -70s- we called 'em 'beat-up and abused' , not 'relic'd'....), and I stopped doing repairs- even feeebies.

On a serious note, I noticed that the TwelfthFret guitar shop in Toronto has a note about winter shipping and cold damage, as well.

Cheers
John
Author:  SniderMike [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:48 am ]
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Dry ice.

There's also at least one big name guy (can't remember who) who does
use an exacto knife.

I've not tried either, but I've seen pretty good results with dry ice.
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:57 am ]
Post subject: 

Mike,


how do you apply the dry ice? I would assume, perhaps wrongly so, that direct contact would "burn" the finish. Perhaps in a cooler to bring the temp below freezing?
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:58 am ]
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Thank you all for your input.

Author:  SniderMike [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:06 am ]
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Dave, I really don't know. Sorry!
Author:  David Collins [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:46 am ]
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Any extreme and rapid temperature change will crack the finish - canned
air sprayed upside-down, pulling from freezer to warm room, dry ice (or
plain old wet ice for that matter). The problem is it will leave you with a
random crackle pattern that bears very little resemblance to a natural
crazing.

The only way I've found to get an accurate crazing is by etching in each
individual line by hand with a razor or Xacto. You can make a half dozen
templates to to follow, running a few consecutive lines of the same
template, then switching to another, spacing them somewhat
sporadically. Then etching in some random lines coming from hardware
and screw points, or diverging from the template lines and following just
parallel for a shorter distance. You just really have to try to mimic the
lines of an existing natural crazing of a similar model if you have one to
reference. Then a relatively light blast of the canned air cold will crack the
finish along those lines, adding in more minor accent cracks between
them. Too much cold at this point can just spiderweb the whole thing
though. Then sometimes buffing or hand rubbing off the harsh etched
edges, rubbing some nose grease and dust from a bookcase, etc.

There's no hard rules and definitely no easy shortcuts to hand etching
that I've every found for a natural crazing look. Many of today's lacquers
are also working against you. They generally have a much higher
plasticizer level than stuff used in the 50's and 60's. Mohawk used to
make a lacquer sold as "production lacquer", or "industrial lacquer" that
had very low plasticizer and was wonderful for touching up and
replicating old finishes. It's hopefully still available under the Star/
Mohawk/Behlen/Valspar merged conglomerate today, but I'm not sure.
It's still certainly doable with other lacquers, but they don't check quite as
easily.

Mike, it's probably Tom Murphy you're thinking of that's well known for
his hand etched crazing. That's who I learned it from, and though I've
tried plenty of other techniques I've yet to find one that works as well.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:06 am ]
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In a thread a couple weeks ago Mario said he really loaded the lacquer on a guitar and it crazed by itself in just a few months.
Author:  SniderMike [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:17 am ]
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Yes, David - Tom Murphy is exactly who I was thinking of. Thanks.
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:07 am ]
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David,


Thank you for the info. I met Tom Murphy about six years ,or so, ago, and he explained his technique to me...it just didn't seem to make sense back then...the etching part...but now it does...sort of stress relief cuts like the concrete guys do. I am going to give it a try...I am sure the guy is going to like it no matter how it turns out...I told him I was going to let my dog chew on it as well... to get some good gouge marks.


That reminds me...does anyone know what Fender used to spray as a primer...color wise...I have seen some cracked older instruments and they look like they had a layer of white or yellow in there somewhere.


THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP!
Author:  erikbojerik [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:07 am ]
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[QUOTE=Dave-SKG]That reminds me...does anyone know what Fender used to
spray as a primer...color wise...I have seen some cracked older
instruments and they look like they had a layer of white or yellow in
there somewhere.[/QUOTE]



I think that would be fullerplast.  Whatever it was... 



+1 on the hand-etching.  If you look at vintage Les Pauls,
Teles/Strats and acoustics, you'll find three very different crazing
patterns.  The Fenders tend to craze along the grain, the LPs
across the grain, and the acoustics more randomly from points of stress
on the tops.



And none of them match the effect you get from those quickie cold-blast
treatments (which IMO looks more like a rock-through-a-window kind of
pattern).
Author:  David Collins [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:40 am ]
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Right, Fullerplast was the brand of base coat / sealer they were using at the
time, though today it's always used as a generic term for that Fender yellow.
There's debate as to whether the Fullerplast sealer even contained the color
or was simply clear sealer, and differing accounts of how it was applied, but
that's another story. The yellow was applied on all early bodies whether they
were a burst or not, with the exception of Mary Kay or Olympic White guitars
that were set aside.

And since I'm short of a dog to chew on my finishes, I find a big ring of keys
to be about the best chip/ding/dent utensil.
Author:  tommygoat [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:02 pm ]
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An excellent site for Fender minutia. The link on custom colors has some good info that might interest some of you.



www.provide.net/~cfh/fender.html
Author:  David Collins [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:11 pm ]
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That site certainly has a wealth of good information (the author/host lives in
a nearby town from my shop), but I remember there being a few
discrepancies with the procedures he lists and those Hideo Kamimoto
presented. Hideo is a very trustworthy and recognized authority on old
Fender finishes, but I'd have to dig up my notes from a seminar about 10
years ago. The discrepancies may just be in my memory, or perhaps just
different procedures from different eras. Either way, Clay's site is an
excellent resource.
Author:  tommygoat [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:36 pm ]
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Fender is one homespun funky universe. Nile Rodgers searched for years
to find the origin of his strange old strat. Turns out it was probably
shaped/finished by a guy who was taking work home to help with
production. Apparently, a lot of things that went down back then are
very hard to track these days?  Certainly makes it more fun to
reseach.

Author:  David Collins [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
I worked on a '70 strat some time back that was probably a 4 or 5 piece
body, veneered on the face and back, painted white, fake grain applied,
then bursted. I know of a few others of lower models that have been
documented from this experimental phase, but this was the only Strat I've
seen.



Fender finishes have a strange legacy indeed.....
Author:  erikbojerik [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

[QUOTE=David Collins]I worked on a '70 strat some time back that was probably a 4 or 5 piece

body, veneered on the face and back, painted white, fake grain applied,

then bursted.[/QUOTE]



If it was a Japanese Strat, that might be the dreaded "photo
flame".  Basically a layer of clear transparency with a flame
pattern copied onto it, then veneered onto the front & back of the
body.



 

Author:  David Collins [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:32 pm ]
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No, this is long before Japanese Strats. This was a weird anomaly from
California, presumably a short-lived attempt to get by with smaller, cheaper,
less perfect boards.
Author:  Evan Gluck [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:41 pm ]
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The foto flames were in the 90's I remember working at Sam Ash when they were blowing them out. There was something pretty sickening about seeing all those flame tops with the same grain There were like 40 of them on display at one time.
Best, Evan
Author:  tommygoat [ Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:24 am ]
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I have one of those Japanese foto flames in my shop. Heres a funny
thing; if you look at the neck you can see an outline of the McDonalds
'Hamburgerlar' character repeated in the flame pattern.

Author:  Evan Gluck [ Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:50 am ]
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Tom, I used to show people that as a sales pitch
Best, Evan
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:35 am ]
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Thank You everyone, for all the input/info.

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