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Art as promised
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13875		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  clavin [ Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:02 am ]
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Hi everyone.
After my last fish inlay post I said I would draw up a vine for you all to look at to see how it would look, and to show you all that yes in fact I can and will do something traditional.
Well, a stereotypical vine itself didn't arise from me but this did- A hanging garden. It's very detailed, and for a headstock. The flowers can be all sorts of materials, I was planning on making the hanger itself out of brass. This is a first version rough draft, and there needs to be a lot of cleanup and re-sizing in the art if anything good is to come of it. If anyone here needs a showpiece this could be it. I can also make up fretboard art to match. I may just do that and take it to NAMM this January if it can get finished by then.
Any serious inquiries please PM me.
Thanks.

Craig Lavin
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:46 am ]
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That is just stunning all on it's own Craig. That will look amazing if you ever get to inlay it.
Author:  John K [ Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:27 pm ]
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amazing
what would you use for those dark tendrals
Author:  Jim Watts [ Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:18 pm ]
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I think that's wonderful Craig. looking forward to seeing it.
Author:  SniderMike [ Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:07 pm ]
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Very cool, Craig. Can't wait to see it. Though I don't envy you when it
comes time to cut everything out!
Author:  Don Williams [ Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:24 pm ]
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Wow...can't wait to see it actually done!
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:37 pm ]
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Craig, like everyone said, that's amazing.
I'd be leery of using brass, especially under lacquer.
It's never stayed golden for me. Even under a lacquer coating it has eventually turned green. Sort of like this-> .
Might I suggest gold pearl?
Or even--and your design deserves this--real gold?
You could even have a poor man's version ( ) in silver.

Beautiful work. What was your inspiration?

Steve
Author:  Brock Poling [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:21 am ]
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[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] Craig, like everyone said, that's amazing.
I'd be leery of using brass, especially under lacquer.
It's never stayed golden for me. Even under a lacquer coating it has eventually turned green. Sort of like this-> .
Might I suggest gold pearl?
Or even--and your design deserves this--real gold?
You could even have a poor man's version ( ) in silver.

Beautiful work. What was your inspiration?

Steve[/QUOTE]


Not to be argumentitive, but considering what this is ... I think a patina on it might look kind of cool... natural if you will.

I wonder if copper gets that weathered look under lacquer as well?.... hmmmm
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:36 am ]
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Steve, I have a Kawai Piano in the other room and the lettering must have been brass. It darkened under the lacquer and did kinda go greenish.

Also, behind me is a bass with brass dots for fretmarkers. You guessed it, darkened under lacquer. Contrast is bad now. I'm adding dots at 12 and 24 to help the player know where he is. I can imagine the shine of the new dots against the old ones......

But as Brock says, it might be fine if darkening is an attribute to the design.

Way 2 Go on the drawing, can't wait to see it come to life under your hand Craig. Where is this one going? Guitar, Humidor?   
Author:  Kristopher10 [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:16 am ]
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I love that craig... it is very well executed. And I like the idea of using brass for the hanger. Nice touch.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:25 am ]
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Tarnishing of brass under lacquer usually looks bad because it is uneven. Some areas remain bright and other areas get quite green. It doesn't look natural at all.

I like to use aluminum for inlays. It looks just like silver but is much less costly. And it doesn't tarnish like silver.
Author:  Dave Anderson [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:44 am ]
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Nice art Craig! That's going to look great with
all the different flowers and colors and such! WTG !
    
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:46 am ]
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One more comment. The tarnishing of brass coated with lacquer usually occurs where the lacquer has chipped, cracked or delaminated. This is the cause of the unevenness.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:12 am ]
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[QUOTE=Brock Poling] Not to be argumentitive, but considering what this is ... I think a patina on it might look kind of cool... natural if you will.



I wonder if copper gets that weathered look under lacquer as well?.... hmmmm

[/QUOTE]

You can get a patina on copper, brass and bronze by hanging in a jar of ammonia for a period of time.  If you actually wet it with the ammonia, it speeds up the process.  Depending on the thickness, you don't want to leave it too long, though, because it will deteriorate the metal if left too long.   I have done this when I make tunable penny whistles from CPVC.  You can take them to most any color you want including full verdigris. Then you can polish it carefully and lacquer it, and it stays exactly as you set it.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:15 am ]
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  Should have read "hang it in a sealed jar with ammonia in the bottom"  It is really the fumes in the jar that do the work.
Author:  Ben Furman [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:03 am ]
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Gorgeous artwork, Craig.

-Ben
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:59 am ]
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I dunno, Barry. My experience was with brass side dots, both mine and a competitor's, which were under ample--and intact--lacquer. Those little buggers just turned green anyway. There were no chips, dents, voids or other discernible entryways for oxygen. But it happened.
My only thought was that Craig's artwork deserves the best.
Now--will silver also tarnish?
Does Larivee use sterling silver on their pegheads...and for this very reason?

Steve
Author:  clavin [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:30 am ]
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That said it doesn't stop Grit, Larry, Harvey, Paul, or pick your top inlayer flavor of the month from using them. They will all tarnish under a finish, but my guess is it depends on how well sealed they are. I use a lot of silver in my work but may start to use aluminum because it doesn't tarnish. That said, people like knowing it's silver and that it's not cheap.

I made this art for you guys. If anyone wants it let me know. I'll do it for a very fair and good OLF price. It still isn't a $300.00 inlay though.. last week some people kinda (in a VERY friendly way) "dared" me that I couldn't do a vine. My ego got bruised a bit and I said "here and now let the fish debate end" I can do a vine!!!
and, well, here it is.. Most likely the hanger will be gold pearl. All bets off on anything else. Lots of pieces in this headstock overlay- OR fretboard dead center- with some re-working.

Up for grabs..
Craig.
Author:  Kirt Myers [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:26 am ]
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Looks like you proved the nay-sayers wrong Craig....




Hey, is that Kelp?

Just kidding, cool design!

Kirt
Author:  John Elshaw [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:00 am ]
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That looks great Craig! Hey, you need to start your own tv show, something like a classier version of Inked or LA Ink. People get hooked watching your stuff go from the drawing board to completion.

John
Author:  clavin [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:08 am ]
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As much as Larry's video's are awesome even the sped up parts get old fast! Just how interesting IS sandpaper!

Thanks- That is a cool idea though.. is there a guitar building channel?
Hey now that's another idea!
CL.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:23 am ]
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Steve, I was not trying to make the point that the brass would NOT tarnish under intact lacquer, but that any lacquer penetrations would lead to unevenness in the effect. That is interesting that yours tarnished without any finish penetrations.

My #3 build is 30 years old and I used a brass purfling strip around the peghead under a varnish finish. In most areas it looks like new but there are a few areas of tarnish/corrosion. And if you look close, the tarnished areas lay under a fine check in the finish.

I agree with you that gold is probably the best metal for this application. It will definitely never tarnish. Silver certainly has a reputation for tarnishing, but I have never used it, so I can't speculate on its performance under lacquer.
Author:  Steve Walden [ Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:03 am ]
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Not that I know anything about inlay, but, if you inlayed the metal pieces in an epoxy (Z-Poxy?) bed with another coat or coats after leveling would that be enough of a seal to keep out corrosion?


Wow, I can write long sentences.....
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