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Compurocker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:03 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 18
After hours of phone calls and web searching I found a product specifically made to SAFELY REMOVE SILICONE and SILICONE RESIDUE without altering or harming underlying Finishes in any way. It is called DSR-5 and is made by Easy Life Solutions. It comes in Quarts, 5 Gallon and 55 Gallon Containers and it is very expensive. I actually called Don the head of their Tech department who advised me personally. For those of us who do not need it for commercial applications it is luckily marketed through Sherwin-Williams Paint Stores and it is called remove and comes in a 8 fl. oz.-236ml Blue and White Plastic Bottle and cost $16.99 for that 8 fl. oz. Expensive! Don said it would be but it works.The bottle says it Removes Silicones and Adhesives. It soaks up the Silicon and Silicon residue leaving no cleanup. It is even safe on carpeting! Here is the DSR-5 Web Site for those of you who may need it for commercial use: http://dsr5.com/usage.htm on the left in the black block side border are more choices to learn about it. Here is the web site for those of us who may have used a little polish with Silicone in it and don't have a commercial use:http://www.re-mov.com/content/view/33/52/ 
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Michael Dale Payne
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:22 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
Ok!! The big issue with silicone is that it will migrate through finishes into the wood it's self if at all microscopically porous. This product requires contact and friction to absorb the silicone. I have doubts that it would help if the wood is already impregnated.
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Compurocker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:35 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

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Posts: 18
Oh yeah it is spelled remov. Don from DSR-5 is the one who told me remov at Sherwin Williams is the EXACT same product and it comes in a small 8oz bottle. He told me the 55 Gallon Drum is $2,600. The Company that owns DSR-5 also owns the company that markets remov. He said soak a cloth wipe down any areas of the Guitar where there may be Silicone and then wipe down with a dry soft cloth and that's it!


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WaddyThomson
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:37 am 
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Posts: 9191
Location: United States
First name: Waddy
Last Name: Thomson
City: Charlotte
State: NC
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
After reading the specifics, It stated that it works on bare wood, and leaves it ready to receive other adhesives.  Maybe it leaves it clean enough for finishes too?


Can I use Re-Mov on wood?

It is safe to
use on all wood surfaces, painted, varnished, polyurethane, or unfinished.



Do I have to clean the surface after using
Re-Mov?

No, once you have cleaned with Re-Mov the surface is ready
for the application of other adhesives or can be left as a clean surface. There
is no messy residue to clean up.


Now I know that there are often claims that are excessive, so I take them with a "grain of salt", but it might be worth testing.


_________________
Waddy

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Compurocker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:47 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

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Sorry fellas. I am not trying to be impersonal in any way. I can't believe this stuff is so expensive! But if it does what it says it does it's worth it. Even if you clean bare wood with it that had Silicone on it you can refinish it! It will not harm any existing finish whatsoever. They have clients from homeowners to major businesses to the US Navy for Submarines. They have been around a while. E-mail them with any questions you may have. They were very cordial and informative with lots of published data to back up their claims.
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Michael Dale Payne
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:08 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

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Location: United States
I read their literature. I have little doubt that it will 100% remove silicone from a non porous surface. I have no doubt it will remove silicone on the surface of a porous surface. But the manufacture states the product must be worked to absorb the silicone.
It will not absorb the silicon just by contact.

I am not trying to discount the possible benefits of the product but if the silicone has penetrated beyond surface level, and the product requires that it be worked to absorb the silicone. how does it get rid of the silicone that has penetrated the surface.

That contamination can and will come back to the surface and wreak its havoc
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Compurocker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:25 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

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If you are using the product to remove Silicone from a finished Guitar I doubt it seeped through a hardened finish?. When the Silicone is thick you have to work it. This stuff basically just dissolves it into nothing. So if you feel the need work it in a little and it will destroy any Silicone that magically got under the finish or worked it's way into bare wood.
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Michael Dale Payne
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:28 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

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Location: United States
See that is where I will disagree. I have seen silicone penetrate finish. Nitrocellulose, acrylic and shellac
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Compurocker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:37 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

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It is a custom shop Martin and I am responsible for the Silicone per another Techs advice. Grrrr... Chances are this guitar will never need a refinish or drop/fill but right is right. I am trying to make good $ here and establish myself. I may have to sell my own pride and joys to do it. It says it can remove Silicon from bare wood so it can be refinished. Am I missing something here? I just want to wipe down the areas I removed scratches abiove the finish? This should be perfect for me or not? Am I missing something?
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Michael Dale Payne
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:28 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

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Location: United States
No in most cases for a repair it may work fine. I am just having problems with it as a silicone cure. This product may very well work to do a repair to an existing finish. My debate it ability to completely remove silicone that has been in place for some time.

I am a skeptic at heart on issues that have been around a long time with no good solution, and silicone has been a disaster for finishing for a long time. Its worst part is its ability to migrate the smallest of micro pores.

My comments are meant as skepticism not rebuttal.

It certainly seems worth the shot on a dig repair. either it will work or it wont. As long as the product does no damage then $17 is cheap fix for a silicone issue even if it just might work.
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Compurocker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:45 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:43 am
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The funny part is there is no real way to test it! The only time anyone would know is if the Guitar needs to be refinished or a drop fill is required. I can't see having to refinish a Guitar I own unless I buy it that way and as far as drop/fill goes I don't get too bent out of shape over love marks created in the heat of making Music... Anal collector types wanting their Guitars to stay perfect forever is another story. And Michael this stuff has the consistency of water almost perhaps that is so it gets into every nook and cranny and soaks through anywhere thicker polish would. Don from the company who makes this stuff says as far as a guitar goes soak a rag wipe it on everywhere Silicone Polish may have been used and it does not need to be worked in as it just eliminates the Silicone. It does have to be worked in for gaskets/seals and thick Silicon Applications. I don't know what do you think? You obviously have a lot more experience than I do. Like I said how would one know unless a Guitar needs to be refinished or drop/filled with CA or something?
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Ben Furman
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:59 am 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:53 pm
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Location: United States

[QUOTE=MichaelP]That contamination can and will come back to the surface and wreak its havoc[/QUOTE]

How can that be?  I thought the problem with silicone was with initial bonding.  Once the new finish or adhesive has bonded with the surface fibers, how can the silicone come up and debond them after the fact?

I don't doubt that silicone penetrates too deeply to be removed....

-Ben
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Michael Dale Payne
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:03 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
but it also never stops migrating as long as it has a path and the volume to continue. I would guess once it has attach to enough fibers that there are no more molecules to migrate then where it sets is where it stays.
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Michael Dale Payne
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:04 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

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Posts: 10707
Location: United States
but it has such a low viscosity it just seems to keep moving


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Compurocker
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:22 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 18
Come to find out the Finish is Poly Urethane. In any event I am not touching it. I said to him "Why?" It definitely does not need a refinish and there are no areas where a drop fill would even be considered and the guitar is less than 18 months old. Why would you really care unless you are going to pass the Guitar down family generations and it needs a refinish someday 50 years from now. I gave it back. I am not touching finishes until I am much more experienced. I owe him a favor so I will setup his Guitars for life no wait a minute for a long time... It was only a couple little spots anyway. I think I will start with a kit. An OM. I am going to go very slowly and hopefully have it turn out like a customized OM1/2A! Yeah... Is there a best kit out there? I have some tools but don't worry I will get addicted and buy what I need even if slowly.
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Michael Dale Payne
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:21 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
Go to John at Blues Creek and have him put a kit together for you. He will also be available for help via phone or email. He is a member and sponsor of the forum and his kits are the best out there. Plus you can work with him on custom wood sets if you wish.
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