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Go-Bar Deck Design
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13716		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  PDeWitt [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Hello everyone!

I plan to start building my first guitar (SJ acoustic) over the next few
months, and while I am saving up for that, I thought I could get started
with some of the basic fixtures I will need during the construction
process.

I plan to start by building my own go-bar deck, and wanted to ask for
some input. My plan is to buy solid fiberglass rods (3/16th inch) from
Into the Wind (as seen here on the forum), cut them in half (24") and build
my go-bar deck accordingly.

1. Should I make the top and bottom of the deck out of Plywood or MDF?
2. How much space should I leave in between the inside of the top and
bottom - assuming 3/16th inch fiberglass at 24"?
3. Threaded steel rod for the 4 legs of the deck? What diameter?
4. Any specific hardwear to put it all together?

Thank you all for your help. I have enjoyed looking at the forum and
appreciate the helpful community that is set-up here.
Author:  Bill Greene [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:08 am ]
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1: I used OSB, but I think properly doubled MDF or plywood would work great.
2: This will depend on what you plan on using the deck for. For example, lots of us use (or have used) go bars to clamp the plates onto the rim. In that event, you have to take the height of the dish, the height of your sides and the bend of the rod into consideration. There is no easy answer to this question. If you're' only going to glue braces, then you have to take the height of the dish, plate, braces and cauls into consideration.
3: I used 3/8th, and inserted them into metal conduit, but that was probably overkill. I've seen very nice decks that used 1/4" and pvc pipe. For that matter, lots of people use wood go-bars...I did on my first guitar, and they worked just fine.
4: Nope, I used standard flat washers, lock nuts and nuts. Others though have built decks where the upper shelf is totally adjustable in height, so yes, they needed special hardware. If it's a basic go-bar design, no special hardware is really needed.

If you do a search in the archives for go-bar decks my guess is you'll get more photos of decks than you can read in a good evening. Maybe even some deck plans. You'll find good information, that's for sure.

I can add this one bit of advice: If you use your bandsaw to cut those fiberglass rods in half, which would be a lot of cuts...then prepare to have a very, very dull bandsaw blade when you're finished. That dense fiberglass eats those blades up. So factor the purchase of a new blade in with your rods, or have some mechanism to sharpen your blade. Don't ask me how I know this. (By the way, those bandsaw blades at Sears are pricey.)

Bill
Author:  Bill Greene [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh, and by the way Peter, Welcome to the OLF. We're glad you're here. If I can help you at all, feel free to shoot me a PM (Private Message).



Bill
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Welcome, Peter, to the OLF!  We're gonna have to number you Peter types.  They seem to be piling up..  Someone will be along to assist in your question.  If you have not looked, though, I recommend searching the "Forum Archives", and looking at the Jigs and Fixtures page posted at the top of the forum, and taking a look at our Tutorial Page.  I don't recall if there is a thread on Go-Bar Decks, but I bet there is a lot of info to be found about them, along with a wealth of other building information.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:13 am ]
Post subject: 
I recommend a Bi-metal blade for cutting the fiberglass or any other things like Lexan, aluminum, etc.
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:46 am ]
Post subject: 
The best advice I can give if your making a go-bar set up is if at all possible use one attached to a wall using the underside of a sturdy (very sturdy) shelf or similar rather than the four support rods. I have had both types and the four support rods are a pain, they get in the way all the time.

This is my current one which I love to bits, I have clear access for attaching bars etc, it uses 1.5" of ply for the top which is attached to the wall with welded angle iron brackets.



If you mean to attach back and sides as well as gluing braces in the go-bar you'll need to be able to vary the height, the easiest way to do this is to use a raising block under the work.

I set the height of my top the thickness of my radius dish plus the depth of my guitar bodies and then reduce an inch. This means that when I glue on the top or back I have an inch flex in the rods. When bracing tops or backs I use a riser platform that the dish sits on so that I still have a gap of 23" between the top of the press and the material to be clamped, you can see the riser in the photo.

Colin
Author:  burbank [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Welcome, Peter!

Here's one I built, like Colin's but braced from the ceiling. I opted for stiffening the top surface with vertical members rather than doubling. Guess I like doing things the hard way.



Someone here mentioned putting carpeting on the underneath of the top of the deck to eliminate slipping. Seems like a good idea.

As long as the bars get an inch or so of compression in use, the height isn't too important. Once the bar is compressed, additional compression yields essentially the same clamping force. I have mine at a height where I can glue an OM or Dread body, then use a platform for gluing braces on tops and backs, more like Hesh's height than Colin's.
Author:  Bill Greene [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Peter, see what I mean? This is the tip of the iceberg where go-bar decks are concerned...it really depends on your shop space, what you want to do with it and how much money you want to spend. For the right amount of dollars "somebody" on here will build you a deck out of titanium.

Hesh's "spinnable" go-bar deck is awesome. I opted to do it a different way. Here's a photo of mine. It sits on top of a short, yard sale filing cabinet, which is on wheels. Go-bar rods are stored in the cabinet which, of course, spins are I need it to. I'm able to sit in a chair, use the deck when I want, and spin it to me, etc. Also, it rolls out of the shop to a different storage area when not in use...and back into the shop when I want.

In the luthiery world, there are lots of ways to get what you want done.

Author:  PDeWitt [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thank you all for your help!!!!

I really enjoy the friendliness of this forum. Your willingness to teach is
wonderful and obviously very helpful. Hesh, that Accuride looks
incredible (perhaps a bit expensive, but worth it for the functionality). I
also like Todd;s advice for a free-standing deck. I think that I have room
for that, so maybe I wll go for that. I also love the idea of the indoor/
outdoor carpet. Your info (Colin and others) about spacing was very
helpful as well.

How many go-bars sould I make?

Also, why the pipe around the rod, and what are t-nuts (where do they go
in the setup)?

Oh, what is the size of the base (24 inches square?)

Thanks again everyone! I appreciate the unanimous warm welcome. Glad
to be talking with you all.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
My first go-bar deck was a piece of 3/4" plywood, screwed to the ceiling above one of my peninsula benches. It worked well enough that I used the same design in my new shop, and made two of them.

I find that using longer bars is a real advantage. They have more throw for one thing: you can acommodate more different sizes of stuff with the same bars. There's also more room for getting at things. Since the back wall constitutes the only 'upright' on my decks, and the top is at nearly full ceiling height, it's easy to see things and get in to clean up glue. Plus, you've got the use of the bench when it's not a go-bar deck.

I use dowels for my bars. Yes, you break one once in a while, but they don't cost much. Also, I've always felt that part of the idea behind a go-bar dack was to use a lot of bars with only a little pressure for each one. That way the force is well spread out. The fiberglass rods have always seemed too strong for me. Just be careful to pick out the straightest grained dowels you can find.
Author:  burbank [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you're using rod, the deck will be wobbly without the pipe.

24" is good, 26 is better if you're using 24" radius dishes.

I like having about 30 go bars.

Hesh, that looks great!
Author:  Bill Greene [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Alan is right about the strength of the fiberglass rods. If I had it to do all over again, I'd go with wooden dowels, too. Here's a few reasons why:

First, they're cheap, easy to find, come in a variety of diameters, and for the number of rods to be used, should give more than adequate pressure. People use birch wood slats, too. Just rip'em on the table saw, and keep some spares handy. And no dulling the bandsaw blade.

Second, the power of the fiberglass rods is deceiving. It's easy to subconsciously think of using less go bars when, like Alan said, the idea is to use pressure spread more evenly, which means more go-bars. The most recent StewMac "tip" sheet is an example of this very thing. They recommend 6 rods per back brace...that's 24 rods for the back brace alone, and then they add another 10 for the pieces of the center strip. 34 rods! That's a lot of pressure with all those stiff fiberglass rods. Which brings me to my next point.

When you use more rods you also increase the pressure/force pushing outward on your deck. For this reason, build your deck really sturdy, or it can become a game of "pick up sticks" in a big hurry. And believe me, that split-second attack of 28 lightning bolt style go-bars - as your deck flexes just a tiny bit - is a harrowing experience. It sounds funny, but honestly isn't. And it has the potential to damage your work, too. (Hence the reason for my initial overkill on the deck/rods/conduit, etc.)

More to think about.
Author:  Rod True [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Now, I haven't read all the posts but I thought I would post a picture of mine. It's just part of my bench, which I use for many other tasks as well.

I use wood scrap, it's free and to date I've not broken one. These were scrap pieces of maple hardwood flooring which I ripped into 1/4" widths and than just cut them to what ever length I needed.

Here you go, a picture is at least worth 100 words

Author:  Rod True [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
IF I had the room, I would have a deck in the middle of the shop that I could walk around like Jeff Traugott's set up. This picture is off Frank Fords website.

Author:  Rod True [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hesh, I really like that new setup you got. That keeps it out of the way and lets you spin it to gain 360* access. Well done
Author:  old man [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I made a roll around base for mine:






My top is about 24" from the base. That works well for gluing braces. For attaching the top and back, I just made a set of shorter bars. Works great.

Ron
Author:  RWGoodman [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:04 pm ]
Post subject: 

I made mine with 36" 3/8ths" threaded rods. It does wobble a bit the way it is but not much. Im using some cedar slats about 1/4" by 3/4" as I couldnt find any fiberglass rods locally and wanted to continue building. They might not be stiff enough for some operations but worked well for the braces.


Warren
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Forget the gobar deck, I want your shop!
Author:  old man [ Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Hesh1956] Warren nice humidifier..... [/QUOTE]



Hmmmmmm. If you call it a humidifier can you deduct the cost as a business expense? Where's Dave?

Ron
Author:  erikbojerik [ Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:23 am ]
Post subject: 
No deck here yet, but I've seen several designs that just use the
underside of a deep cabinet as the upper deck (reinforced underneath
with an additional layer of 3/4" ply) and the bench top as the lower
deck.  This strikes me as a good solution when you need to save
space.  Then like the Old Man does, cut your bars to fit the job
and/or shim underneath when the need arises.



I am loving the dowel idea, that was a new one for me.
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