Official Luthiers Forum!
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/

True Oil - Need help
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13687		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:33 am ]
Post subject: 

Hi,


I have been working on an Ancient Kauri Electric for a special customer. the problem I have is that he wants me to spray nitro (which I have No Problem doing) except he's leaving for the north in 12 days. The guitar is prepped and ready for finish. I am thinking if I used Trueoil instead of Nitro I would have a harder finish by my deadline(and perhaps a nicer one...). The top is a drop top of quiltd maple and he's wanting it stained. How does T.O. work with stained woods?


Can some one please give me some advice on this? I have never used Trueoil before and don't even know which way is best to apply. Spray, brush, wipe...What? What is the application schedule?


Please give me some details if you know about and have used Trueoil before.


THANKS SO MUCH. Your help is GREATLY appreciated.
Author:  A Peebels [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 
I have used the liquid- Not the spray. I apply it with my bare hands just a dab and rub it until it gets warm. Once it gets warm I move to another area. Let it set a couple of hours then do it again 2-4 coats per day for about 3 days. On the second day lightly steel wool the oiled surface before starting with the oil. After the finish is built up to your satisfaction let it harden 5-10 days then polish. I've been happy with the Tru Oil finishes that I've applied especially on necks. It has a slick non-tacky feel.

Good luck,

Al
Author:  old man [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:45 am ]
Post subject: 
What Al said. I usually wipe it on with a t shirt, let it sit for about 15 minutes and wipe off the excess, then let it dry for a couple of hours between coats. I've done four complete guitars that way and will do the same with my next one. I do use a seal coat of shellac, but on a solid body electric that shouldn't be necessary.

Ron
Author:  jhowell [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Pretty much the same as above. With mahogany necks, I stain (usually something exotic like MinWax ), seal with padded on shellac and then do Tru-Oil with my fingers at two coats a day. After a few coats I'll lightly level with 0000 steel wool and naphtha. Depending on the pores, the neck might get anywhere's from a dozen up coats. Its hard enough to ship after a week. I really like the stuff for necks. I do buy it in the small bottles as it does seem to have a shelf life. What hasn't been used in six months is tossed.
Author:  James W B [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:43 am ]
Post subject: 
What about pore filling before using tru-oil?
                            James
Author:  jerr6 [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:45 am ]
Post subject: 
what a coinsidance i was just going to ask a question about truoil. sorry Dave dont mean to threadjack. i wanted to know can you use z poxy as a filler under truoil?
Author:  jerr6 [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:47 am ]
Post subject: 
oops James beat me to the question
Author:  A Peebels [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Any of the standard pore fillers work,but if you have the time the Tru Oil will fill them with additional coats.

I agree about buying small bottles. If it sets a month or so after being opened, a hard film will form over the liquid. The oil under the film is fine to use.

Al
Author:  James W B [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:54 am ]
Post subject: 
The reason I asked was because it seems that Mahogany necks filled with z-poxy seem to get kind of grainy feeling or a little rough after a lot of use.
                               James
                       
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Dave why not try the polyester like Rick and Mario have mentioned.

Here's a quote from Rick on the Pores shucking grain filler? thread.

[Quote=Rick Turner]West Systems is made by the Gougeon Brothers, the guys who really put epoxy on the map in high tech ice boat and racing yacht construction. WEST stands for Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique, and it's part of the whole "cold molded" hull thing where they build up layers of cross grain thin wood on a wooden frame work that is not part of the boat. These guys are the epoxy kings, and their products have been tested under conditions that make our guitar making issues look positively quaint. This stuff makes killer pore filler, and it looks to me like it's saving me a day in the spray booth and three coats of polyester and a whole cycle of sanding and leveling. I can go from epoxy fill, to sanding, to sealer, to a quick scuff, to top coating, to sand'n'buff.   No UV, three days in the booth, preferably two days of cure, and out the door.[/quote]
Author:  A Peebels [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:57 am ]
Post subject: 
You can always add another layer of Tru Oil if it starts to wear.

Al
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Crumbs, hit the post button before I was done.

It'll be a better finish all around versus the Tru-Oil and it shouldn't take as long to apply and get out the door.
Author:  A Peebels [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Think of it as an oil based french polish.

Al
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Really, I was kind of thinking I was going to go that route myself. My father-in-law used the Chemcraft catalyzed polyester for his one and only guitar. He sprayed with nothing special and he hadn't done any spraying in over 15 years (he's a cabinet maker by trade, but is now in management). Maybe the catalyzed polyester takes longer to cure because there is not MEK added. I don't really know though.

Dave will certainly decide what is best for him.

Thanks for the check Hesh    You could be right, Dave may not want to worry about going to poly for this one, or maybe not ever.
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:03 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hi All,


Thanks for all the responses. I really like Nitro...I guess it's just an "old school" thing. The reason I shy away from Poly is that whole catalyst, unrepairable thing. Now this may not be all true...I have heard that to some extent you can "fix" poly mistakes. I also guess the more you use it the less "mistakes" you make. I am perfectly happy with Nitro. Except in this instance when there is a "rush" to get this guitar finished and Nitro just isn't going to be ready to ship in 12 days (unless someone has a trick or two up their sleeves they haven't been sharing). So that's why I started thinking maybe Tung Oil then True Oil.


I don't know if any of you have worked with Kauri but it doesn't require any pore filling so that's not an issue, The top is a drop top maple so that doesn't need anything...the neck is Rosewood with Goncalo Alves fretboard. It has been F.P.'d and feels pretty good.


I am concerned about staining the drop top (plan on using Color Tone) and then True Oiling over it. Anyone done that?


Also, is 12 days enough time to get all the coates of T.O. on and let it harden?


Thanks Guys I Appreciate your input.


 
Author:  old man [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dave, LMI used to have the instructions for using tru-oil on their site. That should give cure time. In my experience it is enough time, but I'm a beginner.

Ron
Author:  A Peebels [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've used analine dye on maple under Tru Oil when I was doing rifle stocks. Never had a problem.

Al
Author:  A Peebels [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
I hate this no edit thing. I would expect that the colortone is similar to the analine dye.

Yes 12 days is barely enough. Let it harden til the very last minute before putting it in a case.

Al
Author:  Philip Perdue [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dave,

I thought I posted earlier but I don't see it so here it is again.

At my Hana Lima 'Ia school I was taught therir method to finish with tru-oil. I was taught to use the true oil very lightliy wiping on with old t-shirt material and then wiping right back off. The coats are thin and dry fast allowing you to put coats on fairly quickly. The tru-oil will fill the pores as you layer it. Once enough layer are on you level and polish with micro-mesh. I polished mine with lemon oil but if dry you could probably buff out. One thing with tru-oil it does better with a better sanding job. Finish the guitar with micro-mesh and that should make the would really shine. Then tru-oil finsih with a polish or buff after drying and leveling. I can tell you that I saw some really nice tru-oil finished ukuleles in Hawaii and you would be suprised that they were tru-oil.

Best of luck

Philip
Author:  MaxBishop [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Can anyone provide a some pictures of True Oil finished guitars?

Thanks,
Max
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:36 pm ]
Post subject: 

One more thing I need to ask...I am doing a drop top on this guitar...so the "binding" is going to be the edge of the top Ala Paul Reed Smith. Will the true oil soak the edges any more than any other finish? I am concerned that it may get under my masking even though I am using auto pinstripping tape. Any Help?


 


THANKS SO MUCH EVERYONE!
Author:  erikbojerik [ Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, Tru Oil does penetrate, so you will get some seepage under the
binding tape that will be difficult to scrape off.  I'd seal it
(the binding edges at least) with shellac first if you don't want the
TO wicking underneath.



TO will also impart a slight amber to the maple, it is pretty subtle
but not crystal clear, take that into account in your burst colors.



TO will fill pores pretty nicely, but it also does have a tendency to
shrink back over time like nitro.  I finished my 5-string bass
with TO, ebony-maple-walnut-bocote-padauk (in order of pore size,
smallest to largest).  After 40 very thin coats (last 5 cut 50-50
with naptha) and buffing out by hand, all the pores were filled. 
But after a year, I can now see some shrink-back in the pores of
everything except the ebony and maple.



You also cannot be too aggressive with the buff-out, at least not as
aggressive as you would be with nitro.  I used the StewMac foam
pads chucked into a drill, with 3M Fine Cut then Meguiars Swirl Remover
(my usual buff-out schedule) and got a very uneven job.  Going
over it by hand with both grits gave much better results.
Author:  sbrunker [ Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:32 am ]
Post subject: 

Thanks to all who chimed in with their experiences here.  I'm starting final sanding soon (assuming the redo from my binding mistake goes well enough...it took two weeks to get the replacements with the holiday and several failed delivery attempts).  Anyway, I ordered z-poxy, Shellac, Tru-Oil, and KTM-9 from LMI last week and am still tossing around the idea of going with TO on all surfaces vs KTM-9 so that when I finally do get set up with a proper booth I can sand off the TO and go with something "better".  I guess the assumption I'm making is that it will be easier (faster, less mess) to strip the TO than it will be to strip the KTM, but that's pure assumption.


 


Stuart Brunker
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/