Official Luthiers Forum!

This has been an ongoing question in my mind for a while, and something I just read on the Allied Lutherie site made me think again about it. Referring to fiber bindings they sell, it says, "They're not so hard that when the edge of the guitar is dinged that the impact is transferred to the top or back with resulting finish cracks."

I have generally thought that a very hard wood is best for bindings, from a functional standpoint, as "bumpers" on the guitar edges that will best resist dings. Bumpers on cars, however, are designed to be crushable, and this statement from Allied suggests an advantage, along those same lines, to using a softer material for bindings.

From an aesthetic standpoint, I'd rather not be limited to very hard woods for bindings, as I might often want to use something softer for a particular visual effect.

Forgetting about aesthetics for the moment, what do you all think about the issue of binding hardness in terms of their function - advantages and disadvantages to both harder and softer woods, or is it a clear choice for you one way or the other?

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Hi Todd,

Being a newbe at guitar building, I can’t say much as to the advantages one way or the other.
However, you have me thinking of binding with whole new perspective.
Binding as a bumper! Well, that makes sense to me!

I have been wondering about using a softer wood for binding, but, for a different reason.
Now, after reading your post I have two reasons for trying a softer wood.

I’ve been wanting to bend wood (5/16" thick) for a kerfing/binding combo, and have had no luck
with the hardwoods I’ve tried so far. A softer wood might just work! If not, I could always go to
a laminate design.

Robert

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

I've used spruce as binding before....

Looks like old, natural, ivory.

Dents if you look at it. lovely!

Interesting, Senior Grumpy.

In my case, when I say a "softer wood" for bindings, I'm not talking about spruce or other "softwoods". I'm talking about walnut, cherry, mahoganies, soft maple, etc, as opposed to very hard woods like rosewoods, ebonies, etc.

Any other opinions on the possible advantage (crushable bumper concept) or disadvantage of softer wood bindings, or observations from veteran repair people about harder bindings transferring the impact of a ding on the guitar's edge "to the top or back with resulting finish cracks," as stated on the Allied site?

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Interesting question, Todd.
I had a customer drop one of my guitars on concrete.
Hit the binding on the lower bout where it joins the top. What happened was that the blow knocked a hole in the top (!) while leaving the binding intact. (It was bound with rock maple...pretty hard stuff.)
The guitar was repairable.
But hey, you should see what happened to the concrete!

Anyway, thinking back through this scenario, there may be something to the "shock-absorbing" quality of a nice soft binding strip. But I'm still going for whatever looks best on the instrument. I like having something hard there, and probably other types of damage are avoided by just such a binding.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

I have used all kinds of wood for bindings, some of it not "usual" woods for this purpose. For instance, I used some curly oak bindings on a EIR dread a while back. It gave a nice contrast to the instrument. More recently, I used Honduran Mahogany on my Ash guitar. Nice contrast and I was able to tie it into the color scheme of the neck nicely.

As far as binding being crushable, I havent really thought about that. I mainly have been trying to use harder woods that have nice contrasting colors rather than selecting them for their crushability.

After seeing what happened to my Martin D35 with the PVC bindings, I dont want any plastic on my instruments any more. If a customer insists on using plastic or man made bindings, I wont warranty them not to come off at some future date.

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Reguards,

Ken H

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] But I'm still going for whatever looks best on the instrument.
[/QUOTE]

I'm inclined to do the same, Steve. But at least it will be good to have a plausible rationalization - "Hey, it's Crushable Bumper Technology, man!" - for choosing a not-so-hard wood for bindings.

In all seriousness, it makes sense that bindings with more "give" would be a good thing in some instances, while, as you said, harder bindings might prevent more injury in other instances. I'll have to talk to some of my grizzled veteran repair friends to see if they have an opinion on this.

Chime-ins from you repair people out there still welcome...

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I do not think of bindings as a safety bumper .
I use Mahogany(figured) and many other not so hard woods because of their beautiful addition to the guitars overall look!
Take Koa for instance-it's not the hardest of woods but looks great!
using a soft wood would not bother me!
if the player hits the binding-so be it-it's the top and other body parts that scare me.

Mike Collins

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Mike Collins

Mike, thanks for chiming in with your thoughts.

I just checked out your web site. Very nice looking guitars. I saw some of them in Montreal, and was impressed there as well. I especially like your shapes, including your cutaway, and your rosettes. I can't recall if I got to meet you there, though. I believe you may have been away from your table the couple of times I stopped by. I did get some nice photos of your guitars, though, to archive away for inspiration on shapes and rosettes.

From your web site, I see that your shop is near my dad's place. I'm in Ithaca, but we usually get out that way at least once a year. I'll get in touch with you the next time we're going and see if you wouldn't mind me dropping in on you.

Thanks again for your input.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/