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SuperSoftII test report
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13188		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:19 am ]
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Well I have done 6 tight cutaway tests now on a fairly tight 1" radius upper bout entry curve and a 1 1/4" return curve. I use .090-.085 thickness on all six tests using 2 scrap Curly Nara sides BobC was gracious enough to provide, Two orphaned Curly Cherry sides and 2 orphen quilted Sapele sides I had in shop. One of each without using SuperSoft and one with.

I used John Hows bending schedule. I soaked kraft paper for 2 min in distilled water, lightly spritzed the wood with distilled water. Wrapped the wood in the kraft paper. My sandwich was spring steel/wood/spring steel/ blanket/spring steel. I maintained constant but unforced upward tension on the sandwich behind the cutaway caul and bent all six sets at 310-315 taking only a few minutes to bend the cutaway.

Without SSII:

I cracked the Cherry in a later area of the entry bend along a curl change. Not but repairable This may have been operator error.

I had figure separation on the Sapele on the outside of the entry bend and inside of the return bend (outside of the bend but inside of the guitar)

I had figure separation only on the outside of the entry bend and a stress crack on the inside of the return bend on the untreated Narra.

Treated with SuperSoftII:
I wetted all three test pieces with SSII til they were fairly damp both sides. Placed kraft paper under and on top of the pieces and weighted them down with a piece of MDF and allowed 2 days to setup.

all three bent the cutaway like butter. This is good stuff in my opinion especially for tight bend on high figure woods.

I used John Hows bending schedule. I soaked kraft paper for 2 min in distilled water, lightly spritzed the wood with distilled water. Wrapped the wood in the kraft paper. My sandwich was spring steel/wood/spring steel/ blanket/spring steel. I maintained constant but unforced upward tension on the sandwich behind the cutaway caul and bent all six sets at 310-315 taking only a few minutes to bend the cutaway.
Author:  GregG [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:37 am ]
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Just so I understand...you soak the sides in SS2 for 2 days prior to bending, then use the normal protocol? is this how others have used this product..interesting test, thanks a bunch!

Greg
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:43 am ]
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Thanks, Michael-sounds like good stuff.
What was your source for SuperSoftII? (I'll be looking for somebody to ship to Canada).
And, is this a newer product (SuperSoft II)?

Thanks again

John



Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:43 am ]
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I think he just wets each side, and lets it dry for two days, while weighted to keep it flat.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:47 am ]
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Over the past 2 years, I've used the stuff on 6 sets now that included WF Bubinga, Quilted Sapele, Cherry, EIR and bindings that included maple, snakewood, BRW.

I spray SSII and allow it to dry overnight before bending. I also use craft paper but use less water. In six guitars I have also had no interference with gluing nor finishing.

Good stuff!
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:47 am ]
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Yes
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:48 am ]
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Wet once and allow to dry for 2 days
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:49 am ]
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veneersuplies.com
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:58 am ]
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Also highlandwoodworking.com, but veneersupplies.com has a better price on gallons by $10.00 right now.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:04 am ]
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Thanks, guys.

John
Author:  Brock Poling [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:30 am ]
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That is great Michael. Thanks for the post.

Does this effect the elasticity of the sides once they have been bent?

Author:  Pwoolson [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:35 am ]
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Brock, I've found no difference in spring back or any other elasticity issues. I've been using it for the last 12 guitars and won't ever bend another side without it.
Greg: for clarification: the sides never get soaked. Just wet down with a spray bottle. The two days is to let them dry. The SSII needs to be dry before heating or it will leave horrible stains. But you can still wet it with water once it is dry and won't have issues.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:35 am ]
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The are in no way floppy. All I have read states that the effects of the SSII lasts for about 4- 7 day. but even if it is permanent by the time you have your body assembled the sides would be so stiff I can't see it being an issue
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:37 am ]
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I guess I should have also stated that I only treated the area from the center of the waist forward.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:49 am ]
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One the same note. one of the cherry sides I did spray the hole side with SSII just for kicks. As the temp got near 250% I saw the lower bout stat to sag. and then at 275 it just laid down over the form with out even pulling the bout caul around the the form at all. I knew right then and there that the stuff does work. Typically Cherry will droop a good bit at about 275% but I have never had one lay completely down on the form without pulling the call into place
Author:  Brock Poling [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:06 am ]
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Cool... just one more question.

Does it do anything to the color of the wood? .. for instance if you only treat one side and not the other, is there any color change?

Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:10 am ]
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none that I could concern. I was worried about the same thing but once dry the treated area looked the same as untreated.
Author:  Dave Stewart [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:32 am ]
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FWIW, I used a 50% solution of "veneer softner" I get from A&M here in Canada on the tight bits (only, water everywhere else) on my last curly maple cutaway (1" R with 1.25"R  horn) in a "bulbs only" fox bender. Just wet / wrap with tinfoil / sandwich / bend. Came out great! No waiting - no discolouration.
Author:  KenH [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:03 pm ]
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Thanks for posting this! I'll definitely be looking to get some of this as I have a series of OM cutaways coming up next.


 
Author:  James W B [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:07 pm ]
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Thanks Michael,I just ordered some.
                        James
Author:  Billy T [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:15 pm ]
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Micheal thanks for the report, I'll have to try this stuff too.

[quote]As the temp got near 250%[/quote]

   If you want to make a degree symbol(?), hold down the alt key and press 0186.

   Thanks again for the heads up on the SSII
Author:  Terry Stowell [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:34 am ]
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Anyone tried Woodcraft's version called Pro-Glue? I have it, but haven't used it yet...
]
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:51 am ]
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What is the egrediance. The main ingredient in SSII is isoclycol
Author:  Terry Stowell [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:09 am ]
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Hi Michael,

Alcohol, glycerin, adhesive, fixative, and water. Glycerin would be the softener.
Author:  bob_connor [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:56 am ]
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I just ordered a gallon from Veneer Supplies after all the glowing recommendations.

But the freight!!! OUCH. $75US for a $30 product.

I guess it's still inexpensive when you consider the the
price of timber and the resultant costs if we crack a set of exotic timber and have to get another set in from the States.

Thanks for the info gents.

Cheers
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