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Glossing a factory finish?
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Author:  af_one [ Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:28 am ]
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Hoping someone has some experience with the new Epiphone masterbilt line of acoustics?
They have a nice satin finish that I would like to hand buff to a gloss. If you havn't seen or played one of these, they are amazing for the $'s, unless I just got a good one. The craftsmanship on mine is flawless and the sound a playability are as fine as any guitar I ahve played--just a little tight, but its new.
So, I have had some Larrivees in teh past that I buffed up using Mequires liquid polishes, and they turned out perfect. I'm just not sure if this finish is the same and will buff the same. I'd hate to flaw a perfect guitar.
Any thoughts?
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:23 am ]
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Ii depends on the finish media. If the mat was achieved via a after cure and rub-out by means of surface treatment like 0000 steel wool and paste wax then sanding out the surface to a scratch free surface then buffing will gloss it up. But if the process was chemical, meaning the mat finish is achieved via a chemical process that dull the clarity of the finish then I doubt you will have success.
Author:  David Collins [ Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:50 am ]
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Satin finishes typically use a matting agent (usually some form of silica)
mixed with the finish to reduce the gloss, then not touched after the final
coat. It's a beautifully efficient and time saving process, and is also much
more forgiving of minor surface imperfections than gloss finishes.
Because of this they can generally be applied much thinner than most
gloss finishes.

Even with the matting agent they will still rub out to a fair gloss (perhaps
60%-80% as opposed to 95%+ of high gloss lacquers), but it comes at a
risk. Because satin finish does not reveal surface imperfections like gloss
finishes would, the manufacturer typically does not chase after pores and
the like for a mirror-level surface. When you try to rub it out it these
imperfections will often show up. If you decide to chase after even the
orange peel you will inevitably find, it can be quite easy to go through the
thin finish. It all varies from one manufacturer to another, so these rules
are very generalized.

I don't know about the Epiphones, but many Asian import instruments
seem to put the color and tinting right below the surface. Even with those
1/16" thick finishes on some, the color will only be perhaps .002" below
the surface.

I played a few of the Masterbilts when they first came out, and agree that
they are an excellent sounding instrument for the money. If it's an
instrument for you to play, I would have to say why bother worrying about
things like the gloss. Just play it. Areas where you rub will polish out
naturally over the next year or two, and if the partial gloss bothers you at
that point you can worry about it then.
Author:  Rick Turner [ Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:03 am ]
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Pretty much what David said.

I shoot a fair amount of McFadden's satin urethane over build & level coats of polyester.   We are now going for a closed pore look which is mostly achieved with the polyester. Then we flat sand that and shoot two or maybe three thin coats of the satin on top of that. When doing color, I usually stain the wood as the first stage using MEK dyes directly on the wood, then sealing, building, and doing the top coats. This way the color is not vulnerable in the way that it is on a lot of Asian imports.

In the case of what you want to do, if you don't mind accepting the risk, then by all means go for it.
Author:  af_one [ Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:13 am ]
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Thanks, I'll leave it alone and just play it.
Author:  af_one [ Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:44 pm ]
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Good point Todd.
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