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I promised Joshua that I would put some more pictures of these two instruments, 1780 6 string guitar and 1764 13-course lute, that I put on the 'Bracing System' thread. We've been discussing the design and development of early instruments, and I feel that we can learn a lot from them that we can apply to our modern instruments, they also bring into question our understanding of the history of guitar design. (Who said history was just one darn thing after another!)

This guitar is by an unknown maker and dates from 1780. It had its back taken off to refix some braces. It is all original.



Internal bracing, note the angled brace under the sound hole, add one in the other direction and you've got an X brace!


Another view of the reglued braces, the bridge pad is maple, a feature which had been attributed to Hauser.


The front of the restored guitar.


Full length, the string length is 648mm. Apparently it has a wonderful balanced tone which is attributed to the 220 year old spruce top!

This a lute of 1764 that shows fan bracing, as did many of the late Baroque lutes. The fan braces are placed below the level of the bridge. The top has been off this lute before, to have the damaged rose repaired probably not long after it was made.


Fan bracing was in use as early as 1750, long before Torres and is thought to have been used to counter the increased tension of the baroque lute, which itself was a transitional instrument.


The front of the unrestored lute, a bit the worse for wear!


The fully restored lute, note the triple headbox, and we worry about the weight of the head and tuners on our six strings!


I'm collecting the photos from the developers of my own new 10-course lute later today. I'll post then as soon as possible.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

That is interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Very cool Colin. I really like the first one.

Colin,

Great pictures. The bridge plate makes perfect sense on that guitar (because of the pinned bridge). It looks like it was in pretty good condition from the beginning, if just some cracks needed to be repaired and braces reglued. That lute soundboard is very interesting... beautiful instrument. I wonder how much strength the fan bracing is adding in that area? Seems it wouldn't need much back there, until you look at how many strings that sucker has!

Thanks for posting these.

best wishes,
Joshua

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Colin, nice photo's of really old pieces. One thing struck me, even then, and I guess always has been the notches in the kerf (or whatever called then) for the top and back braces. Somethings stay the same. Love looking at these things from the past.

Colin,

Thank you. I love these photos of old instruments. Keep them coming!

Jeff

Stan,

It looks like the builder of this should have taken part in our recent debate about whether to tuck the braces or not!    Seems that 200 years ago they decided to tuck. The unkerfed kerfing (can you have such a thing?) looks like it was bent to fit the sides, another thing I have thought about trying.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

<pedantic>Well, no, you can't, but none of us actually use 'kerfin' to reinforce the sides and add thickess. 'cause that's literally using the cuts you to support things. ie, air. It's kerfed lining. Not kerfing, which would be the slots in said kerfed lining</pedantic>

OK. Done now :-)

Solid lining isn't that uncommon. I think Al Carruth uses them regularly, if not always. I tried laminating solid lining as an experiment, but my technique/skills weren't up to it. The resulting pieces were standard lining thickenss (I bent a bit too thick; 2 pieces 3mm thick), but were kinked in annoying places, and not bent as smoothly as the sides were. The nice thing? The lining was very, very stiff, difficult to twist, and would've really helped add stiffness. Downside? They're so stiff there's just no WAY to make them line themselves up if they're miss-bent. Maybe if I had more lamination experience. Maybe. Or maybe laminating up layers in situ after bending them in the form. Possibly just buy mahogany sides (spares) sanded to thickness, and slice them up. Cheap and easy.

Alternately, I suppose things could be steam bent. I've got some willow I want to play around with at some point.Mattia Valente38407.6128356481

Great shots, Colin. And beautiful work, by the way!

Steve

P.S. How's that rose coming that you promised a peek at?

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