Official Luthiers Forum!

Just a FYI, I bought a reamer from LMI, and it came with no handle. Just a tapered shaft. I either have to use a pair of vise grips with it or chuck it up in my drill in order to use it. I have opted for the drill and I now have a mark on it so that I dont ream too deep. so far it is working, but I would rather have one with a handle...

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

Ken, drill a hole in it perpendicular to the shaft and press in a cross bar. I've not seen that one. Appears it was made just for this job.

Pat, I tested my Hanson from ACE hardware. I does a near perfect job. No need to replace it, because it's working great. My Hanson looks very much like the General pictured on Page 1 of this thread. The 3/16 standard drill bit appears to work very well too. So I'm set for the next few hundred guitar bridge pins. This place always has me re-examining my mouse traps though, which is a good thing.

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Ken, I have that reamer. I turned a handle for it, drilled it the same same dimension as the shaft, put it on and then drilled another, smaller hole all the way through the handle and the reamer shaft to accept a pin which I peened over on both sides. I like the triple (?) fluted reamers from Stewmac better, but the handle on this one has stayed put.

_________________
Rian Gitar og Mandolin

The handle on the middle one is a standard tap wrench handle.  That's what you are supposed to use.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Waddy, I see no reason you couldn't use a screw for bridge pins. Cheap, easy to back out with just a straight screwdriver. Tools and materials easily accessible. You may have something here.   

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Hi all, I just want to share some experience I had regarding BP. I have used different types from Plastic ( cheap cost! ) , diferent wood , aluminium, bone, FI and brass ( I made myself ) and there are differences in volume and sustain. Firstly, a maple bridge had a lot of difference sound than a rosewood or ebony bridge. I think there has to be something to do with the density ( mass ). I would like to illustrate by tying a string to a pole and pluck it, if the pole is very firm, the string will vibrate longer and if the pole is weak then the string will vibrate differently. Same to the bridge, the BP acts as a stopper and if it holds dead , the string will be allowed to vibrate more ( sustain ) and the mass help to pump the top ( more volume??? ).And if the string is shorter then it need more energy to drive the top. I have experimented with cheap plywood top guitars and there are quite a big difference in the sound especially with heavier BP like brass or FI. FI is much denser than wood ( ebony ) and plastic. I hope this make sense...

Wow.... Welcome!

Jeffrey, we're honored to have you stop in and say "hi". Many of us here have long admired your work.
I confess to checking out your site every now and again.


We heard that you were in an accident not long ago...how are you recovering?

All the Best,

Don Williams

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Welcome, Jeffrey, to the OLF.  I don't know you, but have heard about you, and judging from the comments of the people here at OLF, you will be a welcome, knowledgeable, contributor.  Thanks for your post.  I, too, read of your accident, and hope this post is an indicator that you are improving rapidly.   

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

    This has been an interesting thread to read and reveals more opinions
than one would think possible concernin bridge pins and their tonal
contribution to a guitar's sound.

    I've always been of the camp of belief that the saddle material is much
more important to consider than that of the pins. The strings' vibration is
affected much more by the nut and saddle than by anything beying them
or we would need to start having discussions about what tuners we use
and what they're made from, too.

    I have done "A - B" testing on guitars using different nut, saddle and
pin materials over the years and have noticed considerable changes as
nut and saddle material is varied, but only a marginal difference with
varaiation of bridge pin material. It's been interesting an revealing.

    My favorite has been the combination of fossilized Walrus Ivory nut
saddle and pins. They seem to maximize the guitar's tone as far as the
nut saddle and bridge pins can.


    The primary reason for my preference for th hardest possible pin
maerial is not for tonal consideration as mych as structural consideration.
Softer pins like Ebony or Rosewood will submit to the bridge material and
the taper in the pin holes and take on a slight hourglass shape as they are
removed and reinserted over and over again with time.

    The harder pins will serve to not only maintain their taper, but alos the
taper of the pin holes through the bridge, top and bridge plate, providing
longer service free operation. With that consistent taper comes more
consistent contact between the strings, pins and bridge as long as the
tapers on both pins and holes are properly matched.

    Mismatching of the pin taper and the reamer used to open the holes in
which they will be seated is pretty common and can create a poor
interface and poor string retention as well as distort the pin holes
eventually.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

I will agree with Kevin. It is a pleasure to read differing thoughts on this trade when the opinions given are shared in a way that it is not portrayed as "my way or the highway" type of thing, but rather a real world experience sharing and explanations of why we all develop our own ideas. A lot of good information has been shared here and I dont see how anyone could possibly be offended by any of the thoughts shared or the way they were shared.

Great thread and good job to everyone!

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

If bridge pins are fit properly (unslotted), the only influence they could have
on tone would be relative to their mass. When bridge slots are cut and fit
correctly, the ball end should be pulling up directly against the bridge plate,
with no force or stresses on the pin itself. On a properly slotted bridge you
should be able to pull all the pins out when it is up to tension, and the
strings will stay just fine.

My concerns regarding bridge pins are probably 70% structural and
preventative maintenance, 29.5% aesthetics, and 0.5% tonal effects.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

If bridge pins are fit properly (unslotted), the only influence they could have
on tone would be relative to their mass.

If everything was accountable by mass, then we could simply weigh every part of the guitar, and replicate any instrument we wished. Want  yours to sound like Tony Rice's '35 D-28? Weigh his, and bingo! Want to sound like Kenny smith's '35 D-18? Dismantle it and weigh each piece...

see where this is going?  we all know it isn't that simple. If it were, we could all weigh each piece of our guitars and have the same tone and power, each and every time.  But it doesn't work that way, now, does it? Of course not...

...because there's a lot more a play. A material's tonal response, how sound travels -through- it, and what changes to the sound's energy waves are induced by that material, affect things greatly.

We all agree that the bridge material has a distinct effect on tone, right? Now, consider that a well fit set of pins essentially becomes PART of that bridge, and they in turn, effect how sound travels within the bridge, and how that energy gets changed or not. In violins, we go through great lengths tuning the kidneys on the bridge, the effect being that we can move the string's energy around some. with pins that act as energy 'sinks', such as loosely fitted plastic pins, energy must move around the pin hole(because energy cannot be lost, it can only be changed), while with a solid, well fitted pin, the energy can take a straight shot.

Just consider it. In the violin world, smaller details are accepted as being ale to change tone dramatically(relatively).
 
Then there's the mass issue...

I just weighed pins:

bone: 1.17g
ebony: 0.65g
EIRW: 0.52g
plastic(Martin slotted): 0.59g

Multiply the above by 6 for the total mass changes. It's a serious percentage of the bridge mass.

I was surprised to find these oversize pins on StewMac. didn't know they existed...

The Ivoroid are really handsome:


slotted


or unslotted, about ten bucks
I thought they were pretty for plastic.

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Wow Grumpy, Bone weighs twice what everything else does.

I'm sticking with ebony for now. Not a bad choice. Well-fitted of course.

Does anyone toughen their bridge plate pin holes with CA?

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

So too does the idea that energy cannot be lost but it can be changed....

That's not an "idea". That is basic physics, and is fact.

I agree that a good fitting pin is the ideal .

Drilling a 3/16 " hole , as most do , is wrong !

The diameter of the pin surfacing out the bridge plate is way smaller in diameter than 3/16 " . Should a 3/16" hole be drilled, there is a gap around the pin right at the point you want rigidity and where the ball sits .Having a gap around that area allows the ball to bend the pin as it isn't supported .This goes with 5 and 3 degree pins ( unless they are the oversize ones stewmac sell )

I have the Stewmac triple flute reamer and it's very good. Bone pins do add a considerable amount of weight to the bridge set up , be that good or bad.

Craig Lawrence

_________________
CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
_____________________________________________

Craig, go measure the ball on some strings. Most all are 3/16".... You can drill the hole smaller all you want, but it's of no use if the string doesn't fit

If you use the right reamer for the pin, there will be no gap at the bridge plate.

Wow! Guys, Thank You all for the warm reception! Well I hope I can share my mostly home deviced experiences in my 20 over years of trying to make a good guitar! I must say the OLF is such a great place with all the nicest people in the world sharing and discussing luthiery 24hours a day and thanks with the internet, while you all are sleeping , I'm awake checking on the forum here. If you guys are coming along this direction, please give me a tinker, I'll be please to have you and show you around. Its not a jungle here anymore but fortunately still get some beautiful wood to work with.

Jeff

Craig, I tested the 3/16" drill bit last evening, after resawing a plank to the combined thickess of bridge, top, and bridgeplate. By the time the reamer got the pin to seat, by golly, it was 3/16" on the other side.

Okay, I have a question for you solid pin lovers. How do you make your slot through the bridge, top and bridgeplate? You know the one the string seats in and not in a pin slot. Inquiring minds want to know....

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

We use one of these from Stewmac Bruce.

Easy enough to make one from a jigsaw blade but at 4 bucks why would you bother.

Cheers

_________________

------------------------------------------------------
Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia

I use D'Addario . They are 4.5 m.m. at their widest . Go check !<B G>    

I,m using the Stewmac triple flute 5 degree reamer for their 5 degree pins . They fit perfectly.

Measure the diameter of the pin about a half inch down from it's collar, which is about where they surface at the bridge plate , = 4.5 m.m. Go check !

3/16" = 4.76 m.m.

.26m.m. of slop where you don't want it. It's all in the details <G>     

_________________
CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
_____________________________________________

     I agree fully that the most important contributing factors for bridge pins
are their mass and the quality of the interface/integration with the bridge/
bridge plate.

    A mismatched taper allows only partial contact between the pin and sides
of the hole along their length so mass cannot be taken full advantage of
mass or density regardless of pin material and its cost.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars