Official Luthiers Forum!

[QUOTE=rlabbe] [QUOTE=Howard Klepper] I feel more like Rocinante.

But seriously , I do not joust at windmills. My targets are all valid and well-chosen, and I enjoy the complacent satisfaction of those who know they are right. [insert appropriate emoticon here][/QUOTE] So, should we expect you to take up over "bedding, ceiling, holding, carpeting, landing, shaving, binding, sewing, stitching, rigging, roofing, lining, housing, tubing, scaffolding, sacking, sheeting, ticking, earnings, sweepings, moorings, hangings, sheeting", etc.

All cited by the OED as legitimate nouns for a material constructed from the results of an operation, such as, I don't know, kerf?.

cite (only works if you have a subscription to the OED).[/QUOTE]

I doubt it... I only have so much excess brain capacity. An ample portion have to be dedicated to keeping heart beating and my breathing regular.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

You miss the point, Roger. It is not a generalized complaint about nounifying a gerund. It's about thingifying a void. Like calling donuts "holing." But I've done this too many times and need to move on. I think I have planted the seed.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I think it was Ervin S. who pointed out that... "A kerf is the only thing in the universe that disappears if it gets too big".

long

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"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” -Heraclitus of Ephesus

[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] You miss the point, Roger. It is not a generalized complaint about nounifying a gerund. It's about thingifying a void. Like calling donuts "holing." But I've done this too many times and need to move on. I think I have planted the seed.[/QUOTE] We are not thingifying a void. We are nouning a verb. Kerf is a verb and a noun. As a verb, it is the act of cutting. Using -ing to turn it into the result of the verb action is very standard English - the OED sites "writing" as its example. We write, and the result is "writing". We cut slots (kerf) in a piece of lining, and end up with kerfing. We are in no way using the noun form of the word and adding ing to it, in which case I'd share your objection.

Don't think I'm arguing with you (in the perjorative sense), I enjoy this level of English nitpicking. I don't really care if you regard the usage differently than me.

I suppose I have to repeat what I have said many times before, but I promise this will be the last time:

'Kerf' is not accepted as a verb by most dictionaries. Being easygoing about usage, I have no problem with using it as a verb.

Having accepted 'kerf' as a verb, I go on (being so liberal and easygoing) to accept the verb participle 'kerfing' and the gerund 'kerfing' (for those of you who have forgotten, a gerund is a hybrid of noun and verb. It is a noun in that it names an action, but uses adverbial modifiers). So I am fine with saying "Roger is kerfing his linings" (present participle), or "Roger's kerfing of the linings was neatly done" (gerund). I draw the line at going from there to the noun 'kerfing' (as in "Roger made a piece of mahogany kerfing"), not because I think it's wrong to use a noun form of a verb, but because 'kerf' did not start out as a verb. It started as a noun designating a void. As a noun based on the noun 'kerf', it would be awkward, and ought to designate a mass quantity of voids. It is the equivalent of calling donuts "holing," (a donut has a hole, as a piece of wood may have a kerf, and one can hole a donut, as one can kerf wood, and the act of doing that can be called holing, as the act of cutting kerfs can be called kerfing); not the equivalent of calling written work "writing." And if you heard people starting to call donuts "holing," you might think (I would) that they are unclear about the hole concept.

In short, my objection is substantive, not formal.

I promise not to explain this any further, lest people figure out that I have too much free time.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Thats Ok Howard we don't mind But you are right I got spanked using that term to describe kerfed ribbing in curved cabinets by my grandfather.

We all knew what was being talked about without being gramaticly correct.

I personally took your first comments more as a poke in the sides or funning (not a real word, just covering bases here )more so that an call down. Kind of like French Polish vs French polish. multicultural ethnic group vs. a finishing technique

<G> This is enjoyable.

Roger, think about it this way. A piece of writing, or roofing, etc. refers
to the physical material an action produced. A piece of kerfing would
literally be nothing, because that's what "kerf" refers to. A piece of
kerfing would be the empty space made when you used a saw to create a
kerf.

See, Howard, we're not so different.

Dang this is fun to watch.

I should've paid more better attention at the school house

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Say what you do, Do what you say.