Official Luthiers Forum!

OK, it's finally here. I picked up the photos from the developers (what's this about some new fangled digital thingummy-jig you can get now?)



Based on a 64cm Lute of C1610 by Wendelio Venere. The front is Swiss Spruce (P. abies) from my stash. Very close grained and about 90 years old.



The back is in 13 ribs (I'm not supersticious) and is from the same 1000+ year old yew which blew down in a storm in 1987 and from which I made my other lute. Neck is stained sycamore and the fingerboard is veneered in ebony. Pegbox and bridge are in stained plum.



Rose design is traditional, and is based on a Celtic knot pattern. This is the bit Steve Kinnaird was waiting for!

Stringing is of course gut, as are the frets. Frets are knotted on after the strings are fitted. Re-fretting is a cinch!

Now all I've got to do is learn how to play the dang thing, I have heard it played and it sounds pretty good to my untrained ear.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Oh boy, that's really nice. With what are you supporting that tiny inner circle on the rose? (I don't see how you did that.) Do you have some bars running under it?

Very pretty.

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

WOW!!!! WOW Colin! Thats amazing!
Hey, have you ever seen that GAL book Historical Lute Construction?

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Beautiful work Colin.

Did you carve that rose yourself? Can you give us a run down of how you make them?

I'm in agreement with Lance and Steve - <i>very</i> impressive! You've got me thinking that a lute is one thing I'd love to make for myself at some point (why are things I want to make myself so easy to come up with??).

Love the color of the ribs, and I don't even know what to say about that rose other than its a beautifully intricate design, and superbly executed.

Great job!

_________________
Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

I can describe your lute in one word. Incredible! Some day.........

_________________
Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Colin, that's amazing! Your attention to detail is incredible.

Oh yeah, that rose just blew me away.....

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

I have to agree Colin, incredible attention to detail and execution. The woods are scrumptious and the finish shines.

It's all solid Steve, all connected to the wood next to it, there are no supporting bars underneath at all. I shouldn't say so really but I'm very pleased with the rose, when I started it I wasn't sure if I had the ability to carry it off, but the answer seems to be go for it, but go for it slowly!

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Paul,

Yes, I did carve it myself directly into the top plate of the lute, very close grained spruce is required. It is a very nerve-racking task and took me months to do, as the steadiness of the hand and not breathing can only be done in short bursts.

Here's roughly how you do it:

Start with the design, there are reference drawings for these at many of the museums, this is the reference drawing for the rose on this lute.



Transfer the drawing to the lute top I use the old system of pencil transfer backed up with pin marks through the paper onto the top at key points.

Initial perforations are made with a small hand drill to give a surface to carve. After that it's carved with surgical scalpels of different size very carefully, using them mostly as small scrapers. To round of the sections I use small scrapers with profiles to match the sections I'm carving. Checking with the original drawing very regularly is essential. Finish is with papers stuck to small shaped sticks.

It has to be done in a very careful regulated way you mustn't be in a hurry, never say "I'm going to have it finished by....". It does use up a lot of nervous energy as you are always thinking that one small slip of the scalpel, one sneeze, and the whole top could be ruined! It's the perfect job to do while glue is drying or sides are cooking. I wouldn't want to be building a lute without also having a couple of other projects on the go because it must never become a drudge or quality will go out the window.

That given it's very therapeutic and the sense of satisfaction is enormous, give it a go!

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Joshua,

Thanks for you remarks, they mean a lot. You know my opinion, I think that you should build either a lute or Baroque guitar as soon as possible (After you've built Torres #FE08 for yourself first). If anybody has the technical skill and artistry to make a remarkable instrument it's you. We've all seen your build quality and you have the historical interest to carry it through as well. Believe me if I can do it you'll have no trouble.

Yes, it does have fan braces, three ladder braces, two above the sound hole one below, and seven fan braces. There are also six small reinforcements around the sound hole for support (Venere didn't do this but unsupported holes make me nervous)

ColinColin S38408.2223611111

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

That's fantastic! Truly a work of art, and a real labour of love. Simply beautiful! I'll wager there are more hours in that rose than in many a guitar. Gorgeous stuff.

Thanks Mattia, It has to be a labour of love the time it takes me! All together the rose took about 150 hours or so, I expect that with more practice it would be quicker. But I'm not in a race.

As Dutch/Italian you should really build one both countries have a tradition.

I'm measuring the 1700 Stradivarius 5-course guitar next week for my next early instrument project. As it is probably worth more than all the guitars that the whole forum have ever built, added together, I think I'll have to be very careful

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin,

That is beautiful! I have great respect for your substantial skill and bountiful patience. The rose is very intricate & delicate looking. Truly lovely! Someday I would like to try building one of these. I have a close friend who plays lute & theorbo & he has offered his instruments to me to inspect & possibly draw some plans. Maybe someday.

I have a few questions ... what was the approach taken to cut & fit the top into the flush fingerboard & vice versa? Does the veneered fingerboard make that process easier? How thin is that ebony veneer? That is one process I have wondered about for awhile in looking at various lutes & Baroque guitars. Also, did you use a form for attaching the ribs during construction? I've heard of it being done both ways. Just curious & impressed.

Please post pictures of that Stradivari guitar if & when you can. I have a particular love of his "Rawlins" guitar. It represents in my mind a perfect balance of functional elegance & understated decoration. If you're curious, check it out at http://www.usd.edu/smm/rawlins5.html

Thanks for sharing your lovely instrument with us.

Skip

There are luthiers and then there are luthiers.

[QUOTE=Colin S] As Dutch/Italian you should really build one both countries have a tradition.[/QUOTE]

I'll, um, consider it. In a few years. When I feel I've got a better grip on this 'guitar' thing :-)

I actually have a few friends who are quite into the early music scene, so I might inquire if someone there would be willing to let me examine one/some of their isntruments, and might potentially be interested in buying the completed product from me at cost if it turns out halfway decent. Who knows?

Skip,
The way I fit the fingerboard veneer to the soundboard is to use a double flat edged scarf joint with the fingerboard veneer scarf underneath. Once the scarfs have been cut on the top, the fingerboeard veneer (about 2mm) is fitted to it and the once glued in place I scrape down flush. Because the scarf surfaces are angled to each other, in more than one direction, a tight dovetail type fit can be obtained. Difficult to explain, but obvious when you do it. Historically there are a number of different ways to achieve the same result, much like dovetail/bolt-on on guitars.

Yes I do use a mould to build up the back ribs. I know some people don't but I can't for the life of me understand why, it just like building a guitar without a mould, possible, but not so easy.

If I'm allowed to take pictures of the Stradivarius I will post them here, as it is from a collection and is worth a large fortune I'm restricted in what I can do. When I've built my copy I will certainly post it here.

We have a lot to learn from these old instruments. Mind you they'll never replace a Mahogany/European spruce 12fret 000 for playing the Blues!

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin,

Can't say much more than has already been said. "Impressive" does not beging to describe how amazing the instrument is.

Thank you for sharing!

Jeff

Colin,
Thanks so much for posting pics and info about these builds.
It’s a real inspiration.
I am particularly interested in the carved rose. I have been looking for a variety of designs to eventually incorporate one into a guitar build. My only hesitation is the finality of the closed box.

_________________
Wade
Nashua, NH
http://www.wadefx.com

Wow Colin, Thanks for the vote of confidence! so now I am up to... an FE08 copy, a Baraque guitar, a Lute, and a papier mache/cardboard guitar (with a spruce top). Amazingly, at the moment I have the msot confidence with an FE08 copy.

150 hours to carve that rose... I believe it. It doesn't seem like a forgiving process until finished, being that it must take so long to start looking like a rose. i was wondering whether you carved that into the top or not, I'd read that was how they were usually done. Still the thing that gets me thinking though (one of those things that appears quite challenging, especially since I hadn't figured it out yet or thought it through) is the construction of the bowl, and how the ribs taper and meet up with the neck.

If I ever do it, I'm knocking on your door to get the right varnish, too!

Best wishes,
Joshua

_________________
Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Wade, Just make an access door in it.

_________________
Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Joshua, if I think of something else for you to build I'll let you know!

Oh yes, the rose is carved directly into the top. Mind you I had a fall back position. If I messed up the rose (a distinct possibility) I could just cut it out and use the top for a guitar!

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Wade, if you want some designs, and yes I've been thinking about one on a guitar as well, I'll be happy to send you some on your E-mail. One advantage of the closed box would be that you wouldn't get that little ball of fluff that always seems to build up in a guitar, (it's got a specific name but I can't remember it)

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I forgot to mention that I really like the color of that yew against the black neck.

_________________
Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Colin--Those are "tone balls," an essential accessory for that "broken-in" sound we all love!

Speaking of that glowing finish, what did you use? One of those top-secret luthier's varnishes whose recipe you'll take with you into the afterlife? Looks good!

Carlton