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I believe it is negligible, and the difference is that after collecting fine dust for a few minutes with a vacuum, your suction decreases rapidly.  Go to the website here, and play the video.  It tells a lot.  I really sealed mine up, and use a 25' 1 1/2 inch hose that I had bought a long time ago.  It is working very well for me, for now.  I can also hook it up to my PC ROS, and I also get no dust left on the surface of the wood I'm sanding.  What amazes me is how the very fine dust drops into the cannister.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] I will not be using a shop vacuum to collect dust from any stationary machines, and probably not much for portable machines, either. [/QUOTE]

Howard, I can guarantee that once you hook a CT22 up to a power tool such as a ROS and use the auto power up outlet from the vac you will start actively looking for ways to use this function.

I have a large industrial grade portable single bag vac with a 4" hose with one of those big pleated filters on top, I use this configuration for static machinery such as the 16/32 sander and it works well. I use the CT22 for all power tools and for clean-up work, I could not be happier and would not change out for anything currently on the market for my current application.

I bought my machine 2nd hand very cheap with only a few hrs on it, the guy was selling up and moving to a mobile home, god bless those grey nomads . I was lucky as my CT22 came with all the odds and sods for cleaning around the shop such as nozzles, brushes and extension wands etc and also including the 2" green anti-static hose, which I use for clean-up work, some "Y" joiners and air gates and stuff for multi applications and a 1" anti-stat hose which connects snugly onto the power tools.

A year ago, I would never have contemplated spending the required funds to buy a new CT22. I now know that if I had only been borrowing this stuff for the last 12 month instead of falling into ownership like I did, and it had now come time to give it all back, I would have no hesitation in paying full price to replace it.

One thing I would do different however is to look for a cheaper cleaning accessory kit, from some other trashed machine, which would fit onto the Festools hosing. The Festools accessories do look good being that they are black and lime green and keep with the colour scheme, and it is cool how they fit so nicely into the optional storage box or tainer which clips onto the top of the CT22, but they are, IMO, no better by design, material or structure than anything else out there, including those bits that come with the most brutally cheap Asian machines.

So I consider the price of these nasty plastic fittings to be quite ridiculous and totally unjustifiable, and it is a good thing mine came thrown in with the machine, for if I had bought them brand new and paid full price, they would have been returned to the place of purchase in a manner which would be sure to cause much constipation and gnashing of teeth.

Hope this helps answer your question.

Cheers

Kim

Getting in on this thread late, but I also have the CT-22 and it is, indeed, everything you hear about it. Quiet, powerful, wonderfully engineered, etc. It's one of those things that "if lost or stolen" I would replace within a day.

However, if "all" you're wanting is a quiet shop vac, with HEPA filtration, then yes, I'd look at other items in addition to the Festool. I think part of the allure of the Festool, for me, was the 1" hose and the dust collection off the tools, etc. Because of some medical issues at my home, I also have to maintain a very clean, nearly dustfree shop, and the Festool works perfectly for that. And, like Hesh, I also have the 2" hose, but I just use it to give me extra length for the 1", and in the event I want to use it seperately. But I do not use mine as a regular shopvac type machine. I have a Craftsman shop vac that hasn't given me a second of trouble in several years, and I use it for the regular stuff.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Festool prices in Australia for the 240 Volt/50 Hz tools are totally through the roof.   It seems as though for many smaller tools (not just Festool), it's less expensive to buy 110 Volt/60 Hz tools in the US and ship them via US mail to Australia and use a step-down transformer in AUS. The frequency difference will matter a bit, but not as much as the cost difference. I'll go with 240/50 stationary power tools there...probably Jet...but I'll get US voltage versions of the smaller stuff.

BTW, Oneida makes and exports 240/50 dust collectors.

[QUOTE=Rick Turner] Festool prices in Australia for the 240 Volt/50 Hz tools are totally through the roof.   It seems as though for many smaller tools (not just Festool), it's less expensive to buy 110 Volt/60 Hz tools in the US and ship them via US mail to Australia and use a step-down transformer in AUS. The frequency difference will matter a bit, but not as much as the cost difference. [/QUOTE]

Like I said, God bless those lovely grey nomads, may they continue buying the best for their workshops when retiring and then fire selling it all to people like me 6 months later so they can finance those motor homes forever Amen.

That said, there are those who go the step down as Rick suggest and reckon it's fine, and there are those among them who have changed back to 240v for some tools because the HZ thing was too much of a bug bear. I think you get a touque drop off or maybe a rev drop or both can't remember now as I am not an electical guy but I do recall that the step down is fine for somethings but comes with a trade off for others.

Cheers

Kim

McFeely's price on the CT-22...$450.00 USD
Festool Austrailia's price...$990.00 AUD = $881.00 USD

That's incredibly close to twice the actual dollars, and that's a rip-off. I can't believe that it costs significantly more to ship Festool machines from Germany to Australia than from Germany to Madison, Wisconsin, and there will be duty whether it comes into the US or AUS. Maybe there's a discounter in Australia I should know about, or maybe the Australian government doesn't want to encourage woodworking in Australia!   They certainly don't mind having the old growth trees of Tasmania ground up for paper pulp to sell to Japan after being clear-cut...But that's another story...

[QUOTE=Rick Turner] McFeely's price on the CT-22...$450.00 USD
Festool Austrailia's price...$990.00 AUD = $881.00 USD

That's incredibly close to twice the actual dollars, and that's a rip-off. I can't believe that it costs significantly more to ship Festool machines from Germany to Australia than from Germany to Madison, Wisconsin, and there will be duty whether it comes into the US or AUS. Maybe there's a discounter in Australia I should know about, or maybe the Australian government doesn't want to encourage woodworking in Australia! ...[/QUOTE]

Rick there is only two thing more ridiculous in Australia than Festools prices, and that is the current Federal government and the Tasmanian state government both of whom will do anything to support the deforestation of Tasmania via wood chipping in the name of jobs, rather than look at the long term benefits to our nation of a value added bases timer and tourist industries.

That said, as I understand, the disparity of prices for Festools products here in AU belongs entirely with the greedy Festools company. They have market protection policies in place to prevent international distributors from introducing competition into the Aussie market. I believe that the 2 X prices you are seeing over here are the direct result of profiteering by Festools of a protected market place they have created insomuch that they gouge the Aussie distributors who are forced to pass it on. That is the story I have anyhow but it is my experience with Aussie suppliers of nearly anything bought into this country, that they are very capable of a good amount of gouging themselves and that is why USPS is probably going gangbusters on the share market.

Festools, good product no doubt about it, but ethical corporate behaviour, absolutely not, at least IMHO. May be they should rename as "Feastools"

Cheers

Kim

[QUOTE=Rick Turner]McFeely's price on the CT-22...$450.00 USD

Festool Austrailia's price...$990.00 AUD = $881.00 USD



[/QUOTE]

Yeah that is outrageous and I had no idea that Festool was priced that high in Australia. 

I have a question and an idea.

The question is for Kim M8 - regarding Festool pricing are other vacs also much more expensive in Australia.  For example would a $69US Shop-Vac be nearly twice that in Oz?  How about Fein?

The idea is to contact Festool in Germany via physical letter and cc: Festool USA and explain the following:  You are inquiring as to if Festool USA would be authorized to special order 240V tools for you to be delivered to you through Festool US dealers.  Your situation is special, you are a renowned US Luthier who wants to use Festool tools while traveling globally where 240V is required.  These tools will be used for teaching and applicable educational discounts would apply.  You do not currently know exactly where your classes will be taught, which countries, but of the choices available you do know that you will require the 240V versions.  I would add that these products will be afforded the opportunity to be tried by students where ever you have a class providing Festool, and their excellent products, exposure to prospective customers through their own respective local authorized Festool distributors.

A physical letter would be better then an email in as much as humans feel a greater need to get off their butts and respond to something that they can physically hold in their hands......  Sending it to the mother ship, Festool Germany and cc:ing Festool USA sets the stage for a level of professionalism from both organizations where the scrutiny component is introduced.

If they agree to accommodate you, and they just might since Festool is in new product distribution mode, Bobs your uncle.  You could conceivably pay US prices, or more, or receive a professional/educational/promotional discount too - lets see what they might offer to you.  Your delivery would be taken in the US and then you need only ship the products to yourself in OZ and enjoy them.

The letter should be on Turner Renaissance Guitars letterhead and even though I am sure that you would do fine I would be happy to draft something for you that you could use.  I speak global marketing/distribution BS very well.....

Oh, I forgot the most important part. 

Visit a Festool dealer in your area and check out the CT-22 and/or other Festool products and see if this is really what you want.

I strongly suspect though that with your design eye and appreciation for things that are best-in-breed and just simply get the job done that you will greatly appreciate what Festool offers.

I make a point of advising people that a bargain is never really a bargain, regardless of the price, if it is not what you really want.

Hey Hesh, you should get paid by Festool for all this advertising and sales you're doing.....

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

  What I would like to know is what does "Festool" mean in German.  Is it a family name or what?  I had a bit of trouble getting used to telling people that I had a "Festool" and them looking at me like I have worms or something.......

I bit the bullet and bought a pile of festool stuff about 3 years ago. I do cabinetry, furniture, general contracting. The vac is as good as the reviews and I can add that after 3 years of hauling it around, getting beat on in the shop, drug through the mud on job sites,(you gotta love your help or you would kill em)It performs as well as new. On the hose thing, the standard 2.5" craftsman hoses will plug right in so you can use all the hoses and vac attachments you already have. The cost of the bags is my biggest complaint, but as noted the suction on the machine seems to stay very good untill the bag is full and if you are carefull u can empty and reuse them. I have been thinking about the permament upgrade, but haven't done that yet, the 1" hose end is designed to plug in all festool tools and is the only hose Ive found that will plug directly into my dewalt 5" ros, my PC 4" belt sander(which has been collecting more dust then making it since I have a rotex) and my miter saws, a nice touch.

Hesh thanks again for the effort and all the great pictures and the great technical review on this machine. I showed this post to the home CFO and it looks like I can ask Santa for an early delivery on my XMAS gift.

So should I get the 5" diameter sander that you have as well?

Thanks again bud!

Don is right, Festool should be paying you a residual.

On the issue of US vs Australian pricing. That is outrageous. Do the Aussie authorities impose large duties on equipment imports?

Festool is marginally more expensive to purchase in Canada. Festool USA won't sell directly to Canada, but others will. It looks like Festool's Canadian distributor's have priced the machine at a slight premium to that which you would pay for the usual cross border shipping and other taxes.

Hesh (and others), last night I sent an email to McFeely's to see if the 110 volt Festools will work decently on 50 Hz...the other factor in Australia other than standard line voltage being 240.   I spent a lot of time on the Aussie woodworking forum checking this whole thing out, and it seems to be the opinion of most of the Aussie cabinet and furniture makers that it is indeed a price fixing, Festool Australia issue.   

There's a lot of talk re. using 240/110 transformers in the shop and whether it's worth the dough or rather to just suck it up and buy the 240/50 versions of the tools. I'm still inclined to buy in the 'States and set up a transformer large enough to handle my use of one or two 110 tools at a time.   I'll probably just get a decent small cyclone front end dust collector and adapt down to a 1" hose if I go the Festool sander route rather than get the Festool dust collector. Most of the Aussies were concerned about taking 110 tools onto job sites and how much trouble that would be with transformers.   That's not my issue as I'd probably just install one permanently and wire out some 110 volt outlets.

There are also line frequency converters, and they're getting cheaper and cheaper because that's how you control speed on many modern motors.   We've got one driving the HSK spindle on our CNC machine.   

Interesting dilemma, though... I sure like everything I've read about the Festools, but the Aussie prices do give one pause...

[QUOTE=Anthony Z] I showed this post to the home CFO and it looks like I can ask Santa for an early delivery on my XMAS gift.



So should I get the 5" diameter sander that you have as well?



[/QUOTE]

Oh great....... now one more person has read that I have a 2" hose......

AZ bro I like the 5" ROS over the 6" ROS mostly because I don't have large hands. 

Since we are talking about ROSs now I will add this:  Tony Ferguson has made a point out of asking me what ROS I use.  I am not bragging here, I just think that this is useful information.  He says that he never has to touch up anything on my guitars and the surfaces are excellently prepared.  I told Tony that I use the Festool 5" ROS and never go below 220 paper.  He was impressed and he is also a pro finisher in all respects.  He sees lots of guitars from lots of builders and took it upon himself to find out which ROS I use solely from viewing the results that the Festool ROS provides.

Also, although I use a vac with mine, Festool ROSs have a patented system of blowing air out the center hole across the surface being sanded and sucking the air and dust back up through the holes on the outer edges of the paper.  Thanks to Bill Greene for pointing this out in another thread.

This means that even without a vac and with the included little brownie bag and holder the dust collection is outstanding.  I thought that I would mention this so that anyone who wants to check out Festool knows that they can use the ROS with out the vac and experience the benefits for only $160ish US.

Thanks all (Hesh especially). I ordered the Fein turbo III. Reasons included: by far the quietest at 58db; 2-1/4" hose standard (the Festool hose prices seem like a ripoff, even for the non-non-static); 15 gallon (the CT 22 is 5.5 gal); $100 less than the CT 22 with free shipping. It's not HEPA, but reviewers say it will take a Gore Clean Stream HEPA filter, and I have one I can take out of the old Sears.

Thanks again for all the help.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Howard,
You won't be sorry.
I have had the Fein vac.(mid. model) for 7 years and have beat the tar out of it-never one second of downtime.
I bought the ant-static hose from Festool so it fits on all my Festool tools.
The only small complaint I have is that it has a higher center of gravity and smaller wheels(as compared to the Festool)so it can tip over easier.
Enjoy your new tool!

Festool ES125 ROS is $463AUD in Oz. $165USD in the US.

Given the current exchange rate that's more than double.

I've got one on the way courtesy of one of Lillian that'll be used in conjunction with a UK 110 volt site transformer.

Ridiculous price here really.

Rick - just be wary of equipment availability and prices in Tassie. Due to the small population there is less choice of specialised equipment as compared to Melbourne or Sydney and there is always a price gouge that's attributed to freight costs across Bass Strait.

Bob

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Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia

Bob, let me know how that works out.   My only concern is the line frequency difference...our stuff is 60 Hz, and the Aussie freq is 50 Hz. It's not just a simple equation of slower speed for synchronous motors (which these are not anyway...), there is also a difference in magnetic efficiency, and so tools will certainly work with the voltage down to 110, but may overheat because of the AC frequency.   

Hmmm, they're universal motors...maybe the thing would be to run 'em on 110 Volts DC...Step down and then full wave rectify...

But if they work fine on 50 Hz, then the price savings in one power hand tool would pay for a pretty substantial 240 to 110 transformer that would run any of these things just fine.

For dust collection, I'm considering the Oneida 2 1/2 hp Dust Gorilla in the 240/50 version.   I need to find out about shipping costs.   It could be adapted to a 1" hose for use with RO sanders, etc.