Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Tue Nov 26, 2024 8:03 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:46 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:46 pm
Posts: 413
Location: Toronto, Canada
First name: Michael
Last Name: Lloyd
City: Toronto
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hi,

The rubber wine corks can make an excellent lightweight tap hammer for those looking to venture in the tap tone world. Here I used ?” dowel 8 ?” long and pre-drilled both the cork and dowel end to accept a #8 - 1 ?” screw. The #8 screw seems to add just the right amount of weight to the hammer’s head. The dowel end was also shaped to the circumference of the cork to restrict head movement.



Traditional cork can also be used.



Regards,

_________________
Michael Lloyd

“I was born to ignorance, yes, and lesser poverties ...
I was born to privilege that I did not see ... I didn’t know it, but my way was paved” – John Gorka


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:30 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:34 am
Posts: 121
Location: North Carolina
Michael,

This is a really cool little tool that us beginning luthiers (such as me) love to see. It is simple, easy to make, and has a great use. Thank you very much for sharing.


_________________
-Rob Eckert
Ann Arbor, Michigan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:39 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:25 pm
Posts: 2749
Location: Netherlands
I'm confused...what's wrong with fingers?

Then again, they teach us percussive techniques in doctor school, so I may have an undue leg up ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:40 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:46 pm
Posts: 149
Location: United States
Ok, but does it work, and can we hear some tap tones please!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:15 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3929
Location: United States
A soft hammer will damp out a lot of the high frequencies. This is nice if you're trying to hear the main tap tones. For spectrum tests I use a 5/8" or 3/4" diameter hardwood or hard plastic bead, and tap on the bridge saddle. It sounds a lot worse than it is.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:47 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:46 pm
Posts: 149
Location: United States

So your bridge goes in before your back goes on?



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:42 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:53 pm
Posts: 2198
Location: Hughenden Valley, England
[QUOTE=Mattia Valente] I'm confused...what's wrong with fingers?

Then again, they teach us percussive techniques in doctor school, so I may have an undue leg up ;)[/QUOTE]

Mattia,

So you use your leg as well? This calls for a photo tutorial

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:55 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 230
Location: United States
But only one wine cork in a 1000 is rated AAAA and I'm looking for that one.

_________________
GregH
Fot Wuth


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:02 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:03 pm
Posts: 724
Location: NE Oklahoma, United States
First name: Steve
Last Name: Walden
City: Bartlesville
State: Oklahoma
Zip/Postal Code: 74006
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur

[QUOTE=Dave White] [QUOTE=Mattia Valente] I'm confused...what's wrong with fingers?

Then again, they teach us percussive techniques in doctor school, so I may have an undue leg up ;)[/QUOTE]

Mattia,

So you use your leg as well? This calls for a photo tutorial [/QUOTE]


Oh, tha t dry British humor................


_________________
Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:18 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:38 pm
Posts: 1105
Location: Amherst, NH USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
[QUOTE=BlackHeart]

So your bridge goes in before your back goes on?

[/QUOTE]
The spectrum tests happen after the guitar is assembled and are a way of documenting certain aspects of the sound of the guitar. It is not used for tuning unmounted tops.

Tapping a sound board is a pretty neat thing to do. It turns out that tapping something will cause it to radiate at every resonant frequency that it is has. You can then do a spectrum analysis using a FFT. This pulls out all the individual frequencies that make up the the sound and displays their amplitude. The upper limit of frequency is determined by how long the hammer is in contact with the sound board. That is determined by the hardness of the hammer. Soft rubber or plastic will damp out a lot of high frequencies. A glass hammer will damp out only very high frequencies. The high frequencies can interfere the analysis that you are trying to do so a soft mallet is often best.

A Doctor's reflex hammer might be a pretty useful tool for this but I like the wine cork idea too.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:06 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:29 am
Posts: 960
Location: Northern Ireland
First name: Martin
Last Name: Edwards
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have a full set of piano hammers from a 1930s german piano I dismantled a while ago looking for useable wood......

Haven't used any yet......

_________________
My soundclick xx luthier blog xx luthier soundclick


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:13 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:46 pm
Posts: 413
Location: Toronto, Canada
First name: Michael
Last Name: Lloyd
City: Toronto
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
You’re welcome Rob.

Guys, I also use my knuckle at times, which brings me to Alan’s point “A soft hammer will damp out a lot of the high frequencies. This is nice if you're trying to hear the main tap tones.” I’m definitely hearing the difference in the sounds with the different hammer materials rubber, cork, wood and knuckle. I suspect that some of that sound is being given off by the hammer itself especially the more denser the hammer material. I just don’t understand the science behind the frequency separation and the instruments used to determine those frequencies but I’m willing to listen to anyone willing to share those thoughts.      

_________________
Michael Lloyd

“I was born to ignorance, yes, and lesser poverties ...
I was born to privilege that I did not see ... I didn’t know it, but my way was paved” – John Gorka


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:54 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:21 am
Posts: 805
Location: United States
First name: Jim Howell
Very interesting thread.  I'm using a piano hammer in an X-Acto saw handle.  My unschooled thoughts were to get consistency and not do physical damage (denting) to the top.  I was (am) pretty clueless about the dampening issues.  In another display of cluessness  is FFT some kind of fourier transform?

_________________
Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:41 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:38 pm
Posts: 1105
Location: Amherst, NH USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
[QUOTE=jhowell] In another display of cluessness is FFT some kind of fourier transform?[/QUOTE]
Yes. it is the Fast Fourier Transform that is used in almost all computing where complex waveforms are analyzed. Some super computers are highly optimized to perform the FFT operation. Although, now-a-days, a good PC has better performance than specialized dedicated FFT machines did just a decade ago.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com