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There are alot of woods that grow better when planted in a tree farm that is mixed with other species.

Part of my estate that I am leaving to my children and their children is a Tree farm in the North East of the US in which I have Walnut planted with Ash.  This is land that had once been through cut that I am trying to return to forest.  The concept is that Ash grows faster than the walnut so that the walnut has to grow height to compete for sunlight.  The Ash has a faster time to maturity but because it is still used as a secondary hardwood will be profitable on its own.

The Ash will be harvested at a minimum of 20 years and when it is harvested will then open up the area for the walnut to get more sunlight and less competition so the walnut will put on girth more than hieght.  Because at that time the hieght to first branch will have been set, the quality of the wood and potential for the log to be sold as a veneer log will be much higher.  This approach provides a better quality higher yield Walnut.

The reason I did this as part of my estate is that I wanted some part of my assets to make a statement that I did not do this just for my children but for their children as well.  The Walnut will be harvestable in another 33+ years (I planted all of this 7 years ago).

As far as BRW doing better when planted with other species that is very true.  In the early 1980's I was timber cruising in Central and South America, Imported exotic hardwoods, and had a sawmill in Guyana.  In the area of the sawmill we had plenty of green, yellow and red heart as well as ebonies and rosewoods. 

When the rosewoods and ebonies grew on their own they had a poorer pollenization rate and slower growth than when they were in an area with other species as animals that help to pollenate would go from tree to tree looking for fruit and bugs that would be attracted to the nectars of the various trees.

Did anyone note that Rodrigo posted a new set of BRW on ebay? He does have the caveat that he will only ship within USA and there is no CITES with it. It's a really nice set, but I am afraid to touch it.

[QUOTE=Alan Carruth]The low damping, in particular, tends to help in the production of high frequencies.[/QUOTE]

Please, would you mind elaborating on this point?

I just had the opportunity to speak with Rodriguo. He is in Brazil at the moment and he called me to let me know what is going on with him and his wood.

Apparently (and I am paraphrasing here), his "run in" with the authorities had more to do with the way one individual did business and NOT the Brazilian government. He challenged them by putting this official in a tough spot with the law and taking the government to court to resolve is CITES certification. As a result his efforts prompted much of the fall out. He is now working in concert with the government to uncover the truth about this individual and so far he has proven his case.

He told me that 100% of the wood he has been selling either comes from stumps or old beams and much of it has been in his family for generations. The Brazilian governement is going over his records now, and he fully expects that he will get his authorizations. He said that this will be the largest permit they have ever given.

He is concerned with the inaccuracy of some of the newspaper information and he said that much of the investigation centers around a few ebay sellers (I am sure you can guess who they are).

He wants everyone to know that his wood is legit and that he fully expects to be cleared of all suspicion and back to selling soon.

I was grateful for the call and told him that I would post this so everyone would have at least a little more info.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Cool.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[A couple of years ago I got in a huge fight with a guy here on the OLF. His claim was that since he can smuggle BRW right to our doors via USPS it was not an unethical or illegal thing to do...... I disagreed and still do. With this logic OJ is an angel.......

I'll continue to purchase BRW from quality, ethical sources like our OLF sponsors.

Regarding Rick's comments about stump wood - some of the coolest looking BRW that I have seen is from stump wood. The homogeneous, uniformly colored, straight grain stuff that was used on the pre-war guitars looks rather boring to me personally.....] QUOTE Hesh

Not to drag up old crap again,
but again I feel I have to say something here -
Hesh I have a great deal of respect for you as a friend and luthier, however - "This guy" you mention was one of the people mentioned earlier in this thread >who salvages BRW from stumps and waste from the veneer industry<
His salvage efforts also partially support indigenous popultaions where the BRW is being extracted en masse by veneer and furniture industries, to this day,,, although its something you dont hear about.
The vast majority of the stuff he salvages would either be burned or left to rot in the jungle,,, I myself have alot of admiration for wood salvagers, having been one in BC forests before I was paralysed,,, salvaging hardwood left to rot or destined to be burned by the logging industry.. I know how hard it can be!
Sadly most of this wood will be wasted if not salvaged, and in BC much hardwood that would be extremely useable is cut up by firewood cutters or shakeblockers who are the few people able to get permits to legally extract wood from the forests after the devestation of logging. I was appalled to hear from Tim of Aus Tonewoods that most of the Taz Tiger Myrtle we relish, and the "he salvages" was cut down for "pulp and paper!!!!!!"
It nearly sickens me to hear that - and it definitely sickens me to see the mismanagement in forests all over the world... Its strictly horrifying and until there is an ecological budget that is balanced, along with the economic budgets of the countries involved there will never be harmony between nature and mans greed!
And until then I see people like "that guy" you spoke of... out there salvaging wood otherwise destined for a plume of smoke or left to rot, as alright by me..
I understand your anger toward him, he was particularily venomous in his personal attack on you... But thats no reason to lump him in with people like those listed in this article >who harvest Old Growth BRW< for thier personal gain, as it is my understanding that he has no part of that!!
And as such should not be painted with the same brush, wouldnt you agree?
Cheers
Charlie

Who is Rodrigo anyway? Does he have a website where he sells BRW? I'd like to check it out once he gets the legal part of it worked out.

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

[QUOTE=charliewood] Not to drag up old crap again... "This guy" you mention was one of the people mentioned earlier in this thread >who salvages BRW from stumps and waste from the veneer industry<
His salvage efforts also partially support indigenous popultaions ... The vast majority of the stuff he salvages would either be burned or left to rot in the jungle...Cheers
Charlie[/QUOTE]
Hi Charlie,

Maybe you know that guy personally, and maybe you know for a fact that the Brazilian Rosewood he handled was "stump wood" or "salvaged" - maybe you traveled to Brazil and saw his operation with your own two eyes. If so, then what I'm about to say is probably wrong...

As I remember it, that guy showed slices of BRW that were way too long and too straight grained to be stumpwood. The fresh cut color was VERY suggestive of new, green wood.

That guy offered BRW sets that were pretty much straight-grained and were not oxidized. Again, to my thinking, much more suggestive of new green wood than old flooring or barn beams.

If I wanted to be a champion of indigenous people in Brazil, and I decided that BRW was the means to an end, I would sure as hell have made sure all my T's were crossed and all my I's were dotted (100% compliance with CITES and the Brazilian government), and not try to run a clandestine Robin Hood-esque operation.

When I mentioned to that guy that he was in the middle of a treasure trove of lesser-known species, many of which would probably make great guitars, he was not interested.

When I mentioned the Rainforest Alliance Smartwood program (now overseen by the Forest Stewardship Council - FSC), which would have been a tremendous way for that guy to help indigenous people, preserve as much forest and species diversity as possible, and still make a buck on lumber, again he was not interested.

That guy got thrown out of the OLF (something not seen too frequently) after his ethics were called into question, and rather than attempting to calmly (or even defensively) defend his position, business model, and ethics, instead he spewed out a barrage of personal insults to every member that he thought was his enemy.

No one is "all evil", and I'm sure he has his good points (if I remember correctly, he was compassionate with you, maybe even gave you some wood?), but one of the problems about dredging up the past is that you then have to deal with everyone's memories of the past. And, as I remember it, that guy left a very large impression in my mind that he was above the law, and above CITES, and I remember his attitude of being "everyone is doing it - that's just the way it's done here."

I can tell you that some of the most notorious greed-driven, biodiversity-indifferent, clear-cutting timber firms on the planet will plant some trees or give out a few bags of rice and declare themselves environmentally and socially conscious.

End of rant.

Dennis

_________________
Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Dave,
Rodrigo is currently using "drviscuseater" as his ebay name. He has a couple of items listed. You could reach him via the ebay messages and get his phone number.

Dennis -
first off thanks for bringing these points up - I do know him and I wanted to defend him, as he is a really fine individual overall - as is Hesh
The barrage of insults he let fly was pretty harsh, I dont dispute that, but there were alot of veiled insults and character bashing toward him also IMO,
he felt pretty ganged up on when 20 people jumped on him, with unfounded accusations in most cases,,, and he let fly - he knows it, we all do.
Yes some of the wood is from the veneer industry,..as I said
which is cutting BRW right now, you can be sure!
Many Industries are - legally, ->alot of people dont know what business is like in Brazil, there is alot of old growth BRW being cut down,
he buys from industries that are in operation, wood they cannot use.. destined for pulp, or plume.... or gets the rights to go through the waste products they generate..
There is nothing wrong with that.. and he doesnt deserve to be attacked or deemed a dastardly individual for that...
What you have to understand is that what he is doing isnt illegal in Brazil, where he lives - he is operating under local and federal law there,,,
the shipping of that wood to US however is illegal... under CITES.
Whether it should be or not, judging from the origin of the wood.. is a matter of debate and I dont even want to get into it personally,,
I do not believe he is involved in harvest of old growth BRW,, apart from salvage.
Again - he has been at this for decades and I dont doubt that he wasnt interested in your suggestions on how he should run his business or life Dennis -
as he is a strong willed individual interested in doing things his own way, thats just the way he is,,,,
I likewise dont like to be told how to do my thing, as Im sure you dont, most do not...
And he does carry and promote many many other wood species of wood, lesser known as they may be - you also might not know that,,, but its true...
The problem with bringing up the past is indeed that you have to deal with other peoples memories of it, I didnt mean to insult anyone - and I realize he did.

But I will never feel that salvaging wood is unethical, or should be punished, or that those who do it should be ostracized, on the contrary I feel it should be promoted.

Hesh I did not mean to insult you either, your a fine invidivual - I realize youll never feel comraderie towards the individual mentioned - understandably...
I just dont feel he deserves the monicker he gets tagged with, with respect to being lumped in with old growth BRW poachers, period!
However - if people feel that his wood shouldnt be shipped (however you feel about how he obtains it) to the US and other countries.. thats one thing!
But to insinuate that he is involved in poaching old growth BRW is quite another assertion and shouldnt be made, unless you are certain you can back it up!
IMO the burden of proof lies with those making accusations..
Cheers
Charlie

IF working with IBAMA in Brazil was reasonable, all the people were ethical, and the process not fraught with corruption, then dealing with CITES certification for wood to be exported around the world MIGHT be straight forward and not fraught with peril.

As it is, it's probably as easy to get fresh cut wood certified as to get "papers" for wood from 75 year old stumps.   A bit of paper...as in dead president paper...here and there gets whatever papers you want. Or it's just easier not to get papers and just move the wood on, losing a certain percentage of it to the "authorities."

When IBAMA representatives confiscate chain saws from folks whose wood is clearly all stump wood...and they don't arrest anyone, what do you think that's about?   CITES or a shakedown?

You want to see wise use of timber, Google for Gunn Lumber's new 1.5 billion dollar paper pulp mill in Tasmania...It's all about clear cutting and grinding the stuff up...all the stuff.   And then replanting one species only...blue gum...

I just wanted to say that I have done business with drviscuseater and was well pleased with what I got from him. I have done business with him several times and will continue to do business with him.

As Forrest Gump says: "Thats all I got to say about that"

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

[QUOTE=charliewood] Dennis -
first off thanks for bringing these points up - I do know him and I wanted to defend him, as he is a really fine individual overall - as is Hesh
The barrage of insults he let fly was pretty harsh, I dont dispute that, but there were alot of veiled insults and character bashing toward him also IMO,
he felt pretty ganged up on when 20 people jumped on him, with unfounded accusations in most cases,,, and he let fly - he knows it, we all do.
Yes some of the wood is from the veneer industry,..as I said
which is cutting BRW right now, you can be sure!
Many Industries are - legally, ->alot of people dont know what business is like in Brazil, there is alot of old growth BRW being cut down,
he buys from industries that are in operation, wood they cannot use.. destined for pulp, or plume.... or gets the rights to go through the waste products they generate..
There is nothing wrong with that.. and he doesnt deserve to be attacked or deemed a dastardly individual for that...
What you have to understand is that what he is doing isnt illegal in Brazil, where he lives - he is operating under local and federal law there,,,
the shipping of that wood to US however is illegal... under CITES.
Whether it should be or not, judging from the origin of the wood.. is a matter of debate and I dont even want to get into it personally,,
I do not believe he is involved in harvest of old growth BRW,, apart from salvage.
Again - he has been at this for decades and I dont doubt that he wasnt interested in your suggestions on how he should run his business or life Dennis -
as he is a strong willed individual interested in doing things his own way, thats just the way he is,,,,
I likewise dont like to be told how to do my thing, as Im sure you dont, most do not...
And he does carry and promote many many other wood species of wood, lesser known as they may be - you also might not know that,,, but its true...
The problem with bringing up the past is indeed that you have to deal with other peoples memories of it, I didnt mean to insult anyone - and I realize he did.

But I will never feel that salvaging wood is unethical, or should be punished, or that those who do it should be ostracized, on the contrary I feel it should be promoted.

Hesh I did not mean to insult you either, your a fine invidivual - I realize youll never feel comraderie towards the individual mentioned - understandably...
I just dont feel he deserves the monicker he gets tagged with, with respect to being lumped in with old growth BRW poachers, period!
However - if people feel that his wood shouldnt be shipped (however you feel about how he obtains it) to the US and other countries.. thats one thing!
But to insinuate that he is involved in poaching old growth BRW is quite another assertion and shouldnt be made, unless you are certain you can back it up!
IMO the burden of proof lies with those making accusations..
Cheers
Charlie
[/QUOTE]



I am clearly missing something...


Was there a conversation that I missed somewhere? Is this on point?

I am not being critical, but I am honestly just not getting this.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I am happy to hear you say that Hesh - I didnt want one of my first posts back to be an insult to a good friend..
You are perfectly entitled to feel the way you do about having this wood enter the US the way it did(does? I dunno).

While I have a more cavalier attitude about the Govt and its impositions into personal business than you do it would appear,,,
I just didnt want thier to be confusion or association about "this guy" and the people mentioned who might cut old growth and pay off officials etc
as his modus operandi and thiers is quite different....
[I figured you were not mentioning specific names and its appreciated Im sure]

"This guy" is not Rodrigo but another person altogether for those who do not know this,,,

Anyhow done is done, true... I happy to bury the bones of the past,,,(incl this thread that is being rehashed)

As far as BRW... and all renewable resources,,,
We all must do what we can now for the future generations that come after us, and stop adding to the debt (financial and otherwise) of future generations.
Certain Native American tribes would consider how the outcome of thier decision would affect the 7th generation to come after them, before coming to a conclusion on a matter...
This is not a bad philosophy, in my mind and hopefully we can adopt a mindframe like this as an entire species.
Cheers
Charlie

One of the things that we can do is to make instruments that will last longer than it takes the trees to grow...

I'm a little confused.  When I buy from drviscuseater, my wood, whether it is brazilian rosewood or figured myrtle, comes from Darren Hippner in Washington.  I'm not sure of the connection with Rodrigo Moreira. Can anyone clarify it for me?

Paul 

Mabye I got mixed up. Someone straighten me out if I am wrong. I was pretty sure that I had corresponded with Rodrigo through that account. I have talked to him on the phone before, but maybe I mixed things up.

I was unaware that Rodrigo sold on eBay at all. I thought all his sales were word of mouth and via email and personal contact...but I could be wrong.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=pdrie]

I'm a little confused.  When I buy from drviscuseater, my wood, whether it is brazilian rosewood or figured myrtle, comes from Darren Hippner in Washington.  I'm not sure of the connection with Rodrigo Moreira. Can anyone clarify it for me?

Paul 

[/QUOTE]

I don't think they're the same guy either. Maybe, but it is my understanding that Rodriguo does not sell on ebay.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Hey guys,

"drviscuseater" is Darren Hippner as I have bought several African mahogony sets from him this year.  He is also a great builder of classical guitars and you can check him out on his web site.

Ray

Ray is correct.

I know Darren and have bought wood from him before.  He has sold BRW on eBay but is not Rodrigo.  The BRW that he has had listed is all old growth and did not look like the obviously green and new growth BRW that others had listed on eBay.

 

Maybe that explains why I have such a good opinion of him (drviscuseater). As I said before, he sells excellent stuff and is on my favorites list on ebay. I would gladly do business with him again as I have done many times before. I am glad this got cleared up as I would not want to wish him any ill will in his business ventures on ebay.

I'm pretty sure that is where I got the figured oregon myrtle that is a current build of mine. Pretty stuff indeed!

As far as who Rodrigo is, I have no clue. Never heard of him before on ebay. I hope that he is able to get all of his credentials in order so that we all have a good source of BRW, even if it is reclaimed or stump wood. Matter of fact, if it is either one of these sources, I would feel better about doing business with him overall. No sense in wasting good wood that is otherwise just sitting there rotting away.

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

Ok folks, I hate to do this but I need to put this topic to bed. Brocks and my phone have been ringing for the last two days regarding some of the people being mentioned in this thread. No threats, just concern.

So, with that said I am going to put a cap on this topic now. I hope you all understand. I barely have time enough as it is, I don't need to be doing damage control over the phone also.

Thanks all!

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