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Hi folks,

I’m hoping to get some feedback from you about setup figures you like to use and why. This is a hard conversation because often times, acoustic, electric, new build, repair / restoration, jazz player, shredder, bluegrasser, etc… all get co-mingled in the same conversation.

I don’t build commissions but instead to specs and then fine tune for the player who is identified after the fact in most cases.

This means I need to land on a reasonable set of specs which I can use to both understand the instruments capabilities / potential and also leave room for refinement. I also like to let the instrument be strung up for a few weeks before finalizing anything anyway.

So here are my specs for what we’ll call a rough in on a new acoustic build. Let’s try to limit it to new acoustic builds. What are your thoughts, numbers and why you landed on them?

Assumptions:
- Acoustic new build
- Light gauge strings
- 1/2” string height above soundboard at saddle (maybe this doesn’t matter for the convo)

Relief: .005-.006” measured at the 6th with the neck supported (i.e. not in playing position, the gauge is too fiddly for me in playing position)





12th Action: 5-6/64 E and 4/64 e





Nut Action: Measured as string height over the first fret using the SM gauge.

E = .026”
A = .023”
D = .020”
G = .018”
B = .014”
e = .010”



Interested in what others are doing here.

Brad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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For a properly leveled fretboard with extra relief built into the bass side I set the relief on the treble side almost flat, probably 0.003-0.004”. Action is 6B/4T. I don’t measure the nut but do it the same way Hesh does, bass strings are a bit higher than treble strings.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I'm just an amateur striving for excellence, so for what it's worth:

Acoustic Setups (I don't build electrics)

• Neck relief: .005 @ 7th, middle of FB, in playing position (feeler gauge)
• Action: 5.5/64 bass 4.5/64 treble; in playing position
• Nut: I use a raking light and cut to maybe .002" bass, .001" treble; fretted at 3rd, in bench position. I use Hesh's "tap" method and watch the elongated shadow to determine movement of the string off the 1st fret (third fret fretted)

I started out some years ago doing setups on all my guitars, using specs from build and set-up books as a reference, and making notes of what I did in the blank pages in the back. I have repeated the set-up process over some years, on all of these guitars, getting lower and lower as I accumulated experience.

When I started making my own guitars, I used the 5.5 and 4.5 and .005 because that fit my playing style (blues, string bending, moderate strumming, finger picking, no bluegrass) and they all play great.

_________________
Measure Twice,

Karl Borum

My initial numbers are incredibly close to what you posted. The only slight difference is I shoot for a slightly higher string height at the nut (for initial setup). I am probably 0.005" higher across the fretboard (at the nut).

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-Marcus
http://www.bailieguitars.com
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So the 1/2" in front of the bridge is a check to see where we are but it's not a measurement to set anything else to make it happen. A proper set-up does not care about this measurement at all, it does not matter. It is all about the torque on the bridge and efficiency of the top NOT playability and that's what a set-up is concerned with playability. You don't fret a guitar in front of the bridge. The 1/2" thing is more a commentary on your neck angle as it relates to the bridge, saddle, top.

So Brad there is a sequence again as I taught in my set-up toot (and Dave taught in our classes). These settings are functions of each other so they have to be done in this specific order.

1) tune to the desired tuning VERY important to have the amount of tension on the neck accurate before setting up.
2) set relief exactly how Steve described it above he's spot on. So a bit more about relief it's viewed in two places and the two views will inform what is possible and what we have to do. I view the treble edge of the fret board and the bass edge. Ideally we want more relief on the bass side but 50% of the time that won't happen, it's luck of the draw especially for you guys who fret the board off the guitar you do not have complete control over your fret planes like we who fret the guitar with the board on the neck do. This degrades the quality of your fret planes out of the gate to fret the board off the guitar.

Is Hesh saying that fretting the board off the guitar can lead to forever set-up issues? Yes. Your creations ability to be the best playing instrument possible is degraded when you do not have complete control over the shape of your fret plane...... You only have this control when you fret with the board on the neck, neck on the guitar.

So if the bass side has less relief and it will 50% of the time unless you learn to fret with precision and complete control over the board shape this is not what you want but you have to live with it because it is what it is. Today I set-up my 13th guitar just this week and we still have tomorrow. Half the time their necks are wrong in terms of how they were made with more relief on the treble side.

When this happens I have to set the bass side close to flat visually and the treble side with too much relief. This degrades how hard you can hit bass strings needlessly because the neck shape sucks.

If by chance the neck is correct and they are the other 50% of the time I set exactly as Steve indicated and good for Steve in getting this right. The treble side is very flat, as flat as I can get it with still a pinch of relief. It's not a number.... it's how it plays. I then play every note on the high e and b to make sure they don't "sizzle" on corresponding frets and there is enough relief.

Your tool the relief gauge is another one of StewMacs wonderful wastes of money... We have one too that we made. It may have value to show what a specific instrument is set to if you used it on the treble side and the bass side and not in the middle. But the number is a result of what we see not the other way around where we set to a number. One instrument's number may not commonly work on the next instrument because of the tendency for half the guitars made to have ***** necks with more relief on the treble side, what you don't want.

3). I cut the nut slots and I don't have time to write how to do this again it's been provided and it was suggested the people save those posts. Low is the key as low as possible and there is NO measurement once again it's.... a sliver of light for the high e and b and progressively more gap as the string gets bigger.

4) So we tuned to pitch, set relief, cut slots now here comes your numbers.

Acoustic OM guitar measured at the 12th but ONLY after 1 - 3 has been set action is a function of 1 - 3: high e 4/64th" low e 5.5/64th" this is with 12's on it. Same strings on a dread*ught 4/64th" and 6/64th" these are Martin specs by the way not just out of my arse..... electric with 10's 4/64th" and 4.5/64th". Dread with 13's a blue grass player up to 5/64th" and 7/64th". Bass guitar 5 and 7 meaning 5/64th and 7/64th.

If someone uses alternate tunings I may tweak these numbers some often going up in distance on the slots and the action if the tuning is a "slack" tuning.

5) All settings are measured IN the playing position not on the bench this is important. And the instrument must be acclimated to the RH and the RH in range for what we do 40 - 50%ish.

Regarding tweaking for individual players. I have some famous ones that I set-up for and a few of them I have notes on for future reference. Durning the worst part of the pandemic to help keep my 90 year old Mom alive who I took care of for a couple of years (she never got sick) I went into work in Ann Arbor in the middle of the night. I had no contact with anyone but Dave outside in a park with masks on for 1.5 years to help keep keep my Mom (and me) alive.

So I set up over 600 guitars annually during this time, we got busier during the pandemic and more people took up guitar then than at any other time in history. The 600 guitars I set up each year I never met or saw the players I set them up to my own playing preferences. None ever came back and we earned many 5 star ratings.

It is very possible to do a generic set-up that is excellent and a huge improvement from how factory instruments are delivered and likely what any of you have now. I do sit down with the better players and have them play for me and that does inform me that I can squeak a bit more of this or that out of it for them but it is not necessary and I question if it's productive beyond the psychological impression to a player that someone is treating them special and as an individual. That is important too I get that of course but I am saying it's not necessary to successfully set-up a guitar. I can set one up for any player USA and statistically there is less than a 1% chance that I won't nail the set-up with the methods I have been suggesting to you folks.

One last thing and driving a point home, again.

There is a sequence to all of this so when we say our numbers are as Hesh does it please be sure that you measure things AFTER the entire sequence has been done in proper order of the numbers I provide or any numbers may be off.

By the way as I cut a nut slot down low the tension on that string changes. If you are plugged into a tuner you will see the pitch drop. As such I retune as I set-up frequently. If I adjust the truss rod I retune and check. After cutting nut slots I retune and check.

We are "dialing-in" and everything we improve, every cut of a slot we change the tension on the neck and change things so please be sure to retune often and for every step I suggest.

And the playing position is important. Dan E who visits us from time to time has a lot to say about guitars with "rubber necks" commonly found on bass and other instruments. The level of physical movement on some of these can be very problematic to a set-up so again all things measured and adjusted in the playing position, tuned to pitch.

Hi all,

A truly bottomless subject!

I'm taking "new acoustic builds" to mean the frets are great because I did them. Much easier!

Here are a couple of things that may or may not be useful. It's just how I go about it.

Most acoustic necks are pretty stiff. I find they move from bench to playing position but not nearly as much as an electric. I measure relief from 1-12 in the playing position but then put it flat on a neck rest around the 5th fret.

If it does change, the weight of the head stock will pull it a smidgen flatter giving me a tiny extra bit of margin when pushing nut slots as low as I dare.

Likewise, I set the relief to .003" on the treble and .005" on the bass when cutting nut slots. Those are the minimum I would set an acoustic to. If it's too low, I have a couple of thousandths left to back off the rod for a more aggressive player without spoiling the nut.

I don't put the guitar in the playing position to check the nut height every time I file a slot.
Theoretically I should but again, any change works to increase the safety margin and checking every time would take A LOT longer.
I could check once at the end if I was worried about it.

If they are new, I make sure the strings are up to pitch, stretched, re tuned, and all FRETTED pretty hard at the first fret before cutting nut slots.
In that order.
I'm putting a very small ark or kink in the string at the front of the nut that will develop anyway and I want it to be in the right place and not throw off my nut height in a way I can't easily recover from.

I ultimately use and am a firm believer in the light under the string fretted at the third with the correct relief method.

I've ever had one of those plunger type indicators in my hands and I admit I'm skeptical it can get you all the way there.

That said, I use other ways in addition to corroborate what my eyes tell me because sometimes my eyes aren't calibrated well enough to trust alone so I make sure.
The wound bass strings can be a little tricky on the eyes.

For example I frequently:

Use the audible "tink" thing.
Use a magnavisor in addition to my old man glasses.
Compare the amount of movement across strings. when pushing the string down to the first.
Compare how hard I have to pick a string before it starts buzzing open and fretted at the first.
double check with a ruler un-fretted when all the other parts of the set up are done just to confirm my expectations.

Standard for me would be .070" under treble .100" under base @ fret 12. With .005" relief at the 6th.

That leaves me a little wiggle room if it dries out a little after leaving the shop. Even though I keep my shop at 35-40 percent, Very few here can maintain that practically in Colorado.

I do believe in paying attention to where the buyer is geographically rather than just saying, "well if you don't keep it at 55 percent that's on you".
You may be "right" and have a defense but it's more of a headache for everyone in the long run.
If it's a new instrument you can make a second saddle for it and include it.
It's easier often than trying to tell someone in another state how to find a trustworthy person to work on it or send it back.

One other thing
Maybe just for the photograph Brad, but I read the ruler with my sight line UNDER the strings to minimize parallax. No idea if it matters.

I was brief in my response but pretty much what David said is what I’m doing too.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"