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| Laminated/ multi piece necks and dovetail http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=56801 |
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| Author: | mike-p [ Tue Sep 24, 2024 3:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Laminated/ multi piece necks and dovetail |
Hi all, My next build I want to add a couple of 'vintage' Features, I think a dovetail joint and hot hide glue to brace the top. I usually use titebond laminated necks either vertical or stacked and an oak dowel down through the heel then a hangar bolt for a bolt on. I want to use a laminated neck for my dovetail but I'm thinking stacked heel isn't the best idea or at least I should be using a more heat proof glue. Any pointers appreciated. Thanks, Mike. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Tue Sep 24, 2024 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminated/ multi piece necks and dovetail |
If you're using a bolt on neck why the need for heat proof glue? Gluing the fingerboard tongue down with a few drops of hide glue at the end is all that's necessary, and that will come up easily using a thin knife/spatula dry and with no heat. |
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| Author: | mike-p [ Tue Sep 24, 2024 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminated/ multi piece necks and dovetail |
Sorry maybe it's not clear. That is my usual procedure but I want to try a dovetail. |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Tue Sep 24, 2024 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminated/ multi piece necks and dovetail |
I can't imagine a laminated neck done with HHG delaminating when removing a dovetail. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue Sep 24, 2024 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminated/ multi piece necks and dovetail |
Ken Nagy wrote: I can't imagine a laminated neck done with HHG delaminating when removing a dovetail. I think it is important to not get too happy with the glue used to secure the dovetail joint, which can happen to some folks. The glue is a “backup plan” with a dovetail; the real holding power is in how the wood snugs up, not in the use of the glue. So, if you do it right and keep the glue in the dovetail joint to a minimum, I think Ken is right that the neck should not delaminate from the use of steam to take the dovetail joint apart. But if one overdoes it with the glue in the dovetail joint, my imagination takes a darker turn than Ken’s . . . I can see the possibility of bad things occurring. At least, I would worry about it. |
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| Author: | mike-p [ Tue Sep 24, 2024 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminated/ multi piece necks and dovetail |
Thanks guys, and are stacked heels rather than vertical laminations a no no with a dovetail? |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Tue Sep 24, 2024 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminated/ multi piece necks and dovetail |
Use a dowel in them like you usually do with a bolt on, |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Sep 25, 2024 2:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminated/ multi piece necks and dovetail |
This is a very good question that Mike is asking and he is doing some forward thinking regarding serviceability for neck reset time. I'm happy to see this kind of question it results in better built guitars. Heels that were constructed as a stack have come apart during neck resets at times but it's not common and the cause is not necessarily how the neck was constructed but because too much glue was used to secure the dovetail. Too much glue and in the wrong places result in far more heat and steam and generally trauma for the neck heel area in the reset process. You would be surprised at how many people don't understand how a dovetail joint works when they build one and this includes some notable factories at certain times in their history and they flood the joint with far too much glue. A dovetail joint is mechanical and the only thing glue is used for is to keep the joint together and as insurance. Glue the sides of the dovetail and the sides of the dovetail pocket NOT the face of the joint that contacts the sides of the guitar and a stacked heel so long as it is not minimal in dimensions such as a Guild guitar is and it won't come apart in the steaming/reset process. When heels do come apart it's also not the end of the world they are glued back together, finish touched up and called good. Great question Mike neck resets are now considered part of normal, expected.... maintenance so planning for same makes for a better built guitar. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminated/ multi piece necks and dovetail |
I have used Titebond 3 for laminating necks that are to be steamed off, and it works. HHG for the tenon, of course. |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminated/ multi piece necks and dovetail |
I am not a fan of stacked heels, except on classicals. I have done vertically laminated necks glued with Titebond Original. My earliest guitars had a straight mortise and tenon joint, glued with Titebond. I had no issues resetting a couple of those. I am currently doing a 3-piece poplar neck with a dovetail. Titebond for the laminations, and HHG for the dovetail. Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk |
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