Sounds like a business opportunity for people with CNC.
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| Source for Neck Shape Templates http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=56731 |
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| Author: | Kbore [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Would someone help me with a source for Martin Style Neck Shape templates. PAPER or otherwise. (Low Oval, Low Profile) on a scaled pdf or physical templates? I want uniform, consistent, measurable, repeatable shapes and sanding until it "feels right" is not in my wheelhouse. A neck guy could probably use dimensions and pencil line layout on the neck blank and come pretty close- Im not that guy - I need a template- my neck shapes have a proper taper on the back, but they are not so predictable or repeatable. DILIGENCE:
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Have you looked at these? https://www.luthiersuppliers.com/lsprod ... -templates |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Sounds like a business opportunity for people with CNC.
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
I make mine by printing the image on paper and adhere it to a piece of hardboard the cut it out. Works well for me. Except it’s upside down! Attachment: HEIF Image Medium.jpeg
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| Author: | Kbore [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
doncaparker wrote: Thank you Don. Unbelievable that these never came up on a dozen searches! Interesting why the modern neck shapes are not included in either the StewMac or the LS offerings. I have bought a number of Tracy's jigs, very happy with them all (except for the dowel nuts that fall out of the neck radiusing jig when not in use lololol). Note that the shapes on the attached pdf are not scaled to the same scale. I was on the way to the printer before I noted this........ |
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| Author: | Kbore [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Jim Watts wrote: I make mine by printing the image on paper and adhere it to a piece of hardboard the cut it out. Works well for me. Except it’s upside down! Attachment: HEIF Image Medium.jpeg THank you. Easy enough, if you have the paper template to start, which I do not. AN option is to goto the print shop (I don't have a very good scaling capability at home) and scale each image onto paper for each template I want to make. I would be absolutely thrilled to have a pdf with the shapes scaled to the same scale! Even if not to true scale, I could scale ONE pdf and have paper templates for all. As Brad said, scaled paper pdf could be an opportunity.... for someone. 
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
How about just using the scale function on a photo copier? I often do my inlay patterns that way. I thought you were talking about a plastic printed part, sorry about that. |
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| Author: | Kbore [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Jim Watts wrote: ...... I thought you were talking about a plastic printed part, sorry about that. THanks Jim, good point, I'll edit the original post! |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Karl, I can make a section full size for you if you'd like from the pdf you attached. if you'd like to pick one I'd be happy to do that for you. Here's one I did a quick experiment on. If you print it out make sure you use full size, not scale to fit. Attachment: neck temp late full size.PDF
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
For copying a neck at the 1st and 10th fret epoxy putty rolled into a tube and placed over a 1/4” ply template that is cut close to the shape works great. Put some Saran Wrap on the neck and press the template against it. When dry sand off the excess on your belt sander.  IMG_9477 by Terence Kennedy, on Flickr
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Karl-- I hope that you are able to get what will be helpful to your neck shaping efforts! I have found the Luthier Supplier templates to be pretty useful. I know it can be frustrating, but I think you might be underestimating your ability to shape a neck. Armed with the Cumpiano/Natelson book and a good template that provides some targets around the nut and the 12th fret (or thereabouts), I think you can get where you want to go. The "facet" approach in the Cumpiano/Natelson book has turned out to be very helpful to me, regardless of which tools I use to shape the neck. These days, I use a bandsaw to get close to flush to the fingerboard on the sides and to cut the curves and tapers at the heel, a Wagner Safe T Planer to put a taper into the back of the neck, and dragon rasps and sandpaper to shape everything from there. I check progress toward my goal with the templates, but I'm not slavishly devoted to those shapes. Secret weapon--a bow sander. Here is a link: https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/to ... Y8QAvD_BwE These things are the cat's meow. They can be aggressive, but they leave a smooth surface, and the nature of cutting with them means you don't get bumps or divots. I highly recommend. Good luck! |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
doncaparker wrote: I always hold a used strip from my drum sander tight between my hands. This looks awesome. |
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| Author: | Kbore [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
doncaparker wrote: Karl-- I hope that you are able to get what will be helpful to your neck shaping efforts! I have found the Luthier Supplier templates to be pretty useful. I know it can be frustrating, but I think you might be underestimating your ability to shape a neck. Armed with the Cumpiano/Natelson book and a good template that provides some targets around the nut and the 12th fret (or thereabouts), I think you can get where you want to go. The "facet" approach in the Cumpiano/Natelson book has turned out to be very helpful to me, regardless of which tools I use to shape the neck. These days, I use a bandsaw to get close to flush to the fingerboard on the sides and to cut the curves and tapers at the heel, a Wagner Safe T Planer to put a taper into the back of the neck, and dragon rasps and sandpaper to shape everything from there. I check progress toward my goal with the templates, but I'm not slavishly devoted to those shapes. Secret weapon--a bow sander. Here is a link: https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/to ... Y8QAvD_BwE These things are the cat's meow. They can be aggressive, but they leave a smooth surface, and the nature of cutting with them means you don't get bumps or divots. I highly recommend. Good luck! Thanks Don, I have Cumpianio's book, as well as the excellent Mottola book. Mottola explains it in great depth. A video by Pablo Requena; Carving the neck on a classical guitar does an excellent job of showing the marking and cutting of the facets. I have the Safe-T-Planer and have built a carriage jig for it. I also added a DRO to my drill press to remove improve both the repeatability and the precision when cutting the taper on the back. I've done 3 necks, using my Bondo on Plywood templates- no cigar- they were not completely. or well thought out. All three of those necks are "similar" in shape, but are so different in the hand, I could pick them out blindfolded, by feel/ playing alone. I appreciate the vote of confidence. I will have my better templates, one way or another, so to get more consistent outcomes while I'm learning this craft. I will, of course, use them as guides and won't obsess about the "perfect shape", thanks for the gentle reminder. I have three "necks" waiting on me to get busy- one is from popular and is the "guinea pig" for every process. The only two items I am in want for (excluding hand tools I don't really need) are 1) templates and 2) a self-proven way to carve a Martin style dart volute. |
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| Author: | Kbore [ Wed Aug 21, 2024 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Jim Watts wrote: Karl, I can make a section full size for you if you'd like from the pdf you attached. if you'd like to pick one I'd be happy to do that for you. Here's one I did a quick experiment on. If you print it out make sure you use full size, not scale to fit. Attachment: neck temp late full size.PDF Thank you for that pdf Jim! I will take you up on the offer and will choose one...I've never really paid such close attention to the neck shape until I finished my third build- size matters. I also haven't acquired a feel (literally) for how the different profiles will affect the hand while playing. The more I learn, the stupider I get- maybe that's what Joe Walsh really meant... |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Thu Aug 22, 2024 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Sounds good Karl. |
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| Author: | Kbore [ Thu Aug 22, 2024 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Terence Kennedy wrote: For copying a neck at the 1st and 10th fret epoxy putty rolled into a tube and placed over a 1/4” ply template that is cut close to the shape works great. Put some Saran Wrap on the neck and press the template against it. When dry sand off the excess on your belt sander. IMG_9477 by Terence Kennedy, on FlickrTerence, that looks like an excellent way to do it- I'm IN! Having now spent some quality time with my guitar necks, I'm going to give that a whirl on my 1975 J-45 template-gone-wrong. That neck feels best while playing. An update on the neck profile pdf I posted: With a Starrett 616R, 100th scale , a 10X visor and some repeated measurements, I'm going to go with this- PRINT AT 200% and they will be to scale, as close as I can measure. Jim WAtts, from the same scale method, the copy of your pdf printed om my printer was 4.5% under sized- easy adjustment using your recommendation to scale the printer- that was a good recommendation, thank you. Thanks to everyone who contributed suggestions. I agonize about whether or not to ask these detailed questions, but you folks always provide inspiring answers. |
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| Author: | Kbore [ Fri Aug 23, 2024 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Four 1:1 profiles on a free downloadable pdf C, V, Vintage and Modern Vintage https://genone-luthier-supply.com/produ ... c21b&_ss=r |
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| Author: | rmmottola [ Fri Aug 23, 2024 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Quote: The pdf templates from Mottola's Building the Steel String Acoustic Guitar did not show up in my inbox, likely a permissions issue with my mail server.... Karl, you may want to try those downloads again. Turns out my hosting service was moving my site onto a new server at pretty much the same time you were making the download requests. It is possible that they just never went out. Also, if there is an issue with attachments with either your email client or server, you can try someone else's email account or make yourself a gmail account. If you are not looking for neck shaft curve templates for a particular instrument, you can make your own using "G" Thang: https://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae/gthang.htm and print it out to pdf. Of course that means learning how to use new software. You may find that the neck profiles from "G" Thang's built in initialization instruments are good enough for your purposes too. Good luck. |
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| Author: | Kbore [ Sat Aug 24, 2024 12:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
rmmottola wrote: Quote: The pdf templates from Mottola's Building the Steel String Acoustic Guitar did not show up in my inbox, likely a permissions issue with my mail server.... Karl, you may want to try those downloads again. Turns out my hosting service was moving my site onto a new server at pretty much the same time you were making the download requests. It is possible that they just never went out. Also, if there is an issue with attachments with either your email client or server, you can try someone else's email account or make yourself a gmail account. If you are not looking for neck shaft curve templates for a particular instrument, you can make your own using "G" Thang: https://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae/gthang.htm and print it out to pdf. Of course that means learning how to use new software. You may find that the neck profiles from "G" Thang's built in initialization instruments are good enough for your purposes too. Good luck. Indeed, thank you, the downloads are working now! Thank you also for the Gthang link, its amazing. I had seen your post about it, and even gave it a test drive, it was very powerful. I have epoxy putty to cast my J-45 neck profiles now, but will be including Gthang in my tool box going forward! In fact, the entire web site is flush with valuable tools and information- bravo and thanks again. |
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| Author: | guitarmaker78 [ Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Might I suggest s CNC. It’s a bit of a learning curve, but nothing is more repeatable. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Fri Aug 30, 2024 6:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
I’ll gently disagree with the CNC suggestion. I bought my first (and second) CNC router this year, and I’ve been learning how to use them in guitar making. Here are some specific thoughts in the wake of that experience so far: 1. Just about any CNC router is a wonderful tool for making jigs, templates, and a few guitar parts/processes. But, to carve acoustic guitar necks in one piece, you need to get a larger, more expensive machine than most folks buy their first time. 2. I figured going into using a CNC router would involve significant costs in terms of space, price, and learning time, and I was right about all of those. I consider it to be worth those costs, but I think anybody considering buying a CNC router needs to understand how substantial those costs are. 3. It is a cruel reality that acoustic guitar necks are the hardest darn thing to figure out how to carve on a CNC router. People do it, but it is the deep end of this particular pool. So, all in all, I recommend getting into CNC use, but only if you can afford it, and not if your only goal is to use it for necks, because acoustic guitar necks take advanced level gear and learning. Just my opinion. |
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| Author: | mike-p [ Fri Aug 30, 2024 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
Guess I'm doing it wrong, I just keep removing wood until it feels good... |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Sun Sep 01, 2024 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
mike-p wrote: Guess I'm doing it wrong, I just keep removing wood until it feels good... Same here... |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Mon Sep 02, 2024 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Source for Neck Shape Templates |
A trick I used a lot take heavy solder and flex it around a neck you like use the 1st and 10th fret then take thickness measurements off the neck I like .800 at 1 and .900 at 10 personally the solder can be transferred to anything that works |
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