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First time laminating sides
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=55783		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Michaeldc [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  First time laminating sides
I’m pretty pleased with the results. It went really smoothly and the gear I chose for bagging worked perfectly. The glue I used allowed plenty of open time and was easy to clean up. The sides end up about .145” thick, are quite stiff and have almost zero spring back. I’m definitely doing this again!

Cheers, M

Zebra over EIR - Drop-shoulder OM Fan-fret
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
Sometime the vacuum bags look quite appealing. I’ve been clamping with either West epoxy and more recently gorilla glue, but maybe a vacuum system should be a goal…
Author:  Michaeldc [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
meddlingfool wrote:
Sometime the vacuum bags look quite appealing. I’ve been clamping with either West epoxy and more recently gorilla glue, but maybe a vacuum system should be a goal…


It sure was slick! It provided a lot more clamping force than I had expected. I’m able to easily pull down to 28inHg which, if my math is right, provides about 2000 pounds of force to the surface of the form. I used Unibond One for the lamination, letting it sit overnight before releasing the vacuum. Here is the bag I used https://www.veneersupplies.com/products ... 2-x-4.html . The system cycled once over the 24hr cure time - likely required due to bag stretch. Other than that, the bag doesn’t leak at all. Now to build forms for the four other body shapes I use -

M
Author:  Marcus [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
Yah, ive been laminating the same way for a few guitars. I dont think i will go back to anything else. I love laminated sides.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
Well I’m certainly gonna have room for a vacuum press…
Author:  bcombs510 [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
Image

I use a similar setup for laminated lining. I love it. A couple questions:

1) How are you getting it to hold vacuum for that long? I run a Gast pump which means I can only leave it clamped for as long as I’m willing to let the continuous pump run. What’s your setup there?

2) I want to do sides soon, are you pre bending the laminations?

I don’t look forward to making a new set of offset molds for lining and sides, but I’m switching to a new 00 shape after I finish the two on the bench. So that will be a good time to retool it all.


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Author:  Michaeldc [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
meddlingfool wrote:
Well I’m certainly gonna have room for a vacuum press…


You sure are!!!
Author:  Michaeldc [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
bcombs510 wrote:
Image

I use a similar setup for laminated lining. I love it. A couple questions:

1) How are you getting it to hold vacuum for that long? I run a Gast pump which means I can only leave it clamped for as long as I’m willing to let the continuous pump run. What’s your setup there?

2) I want to do sides soon, are you pre bending the laminations?

I don’t look forward to making a new set of offset molds for lining and sides, but I’m switching to a new 00 shape after I finish the two on the bench. So that will be a good time to retool it all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I’m using this venturi style setup https://www.veneersupplies.com/products ... s-Kit.html It’s got a couple small storage tanks that help maintain a constant vacuum once charged.

Yes, I’m prebending the sides. I’m stacking them and bending all at once.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
bcombs510 wrote:
Image

I use a similar setup for laminated lining. I love it. A couple questions:

1) How are you getting it to hold vacuum for that long? I run a Gast pump which means I can only leave it clamped for as long as I’m willing to let the continuous pump run. What’s your setup there?

2) I want to do sides soon, are you pre bending the laminations?

I don’t look forward to making a new set of offset molds for lining and sides, but I’m switching to a new 00 shape after I finish the two on the bench. So that will be a good time to retool it all.

At least you’ve got a CNC to help you get it absolutely perfect!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  James Orr [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  First time laminating sides
This is exactly how I do it as well, to the letter, and I've always had great results. 2'x4' bag, Unibond, and solid forms.

Brad, I use the EVS setup from Joe Woodworker with my pump, which allows you to toggle between cycling and continuous use. One thing I like about the reservoirs is the big initial evacuation of air when you open the line. Since Unibond and West Systems have such a long open time, it probably doesn't really matter if you save a few minutes waiting for the bag to get everything clamped down, but it does provide for an initial flash of action and hiss, which always makes things more satisfying.

I pre-bend the laminates, too. I've used .06/.06, to get a finished product around .125", and that's done me really well.
Image
Author:  bcombs510 [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
James Orr wrote:
Brad, I use the EVS setup from Joe Woodworker with my pump, which allows you to toggle between cycling and continuous use.


Perfect. Looks like the EV2 kit comes with the pump and all the parts needed plug and play. I may go that route. I would like to leave it overnight but I’ve not been able to convince myself to leave the continuous pump running unattended.

Thanks!


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Author:  James Orr [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
I honestly haven't had luck with the cycling feature and had been thinking about converting to continuous run to save shelf space. Mine tends to run continuously regardless, but Michael's success makes me want to give it more consideration and another look through to see if I may have set something incorrectly.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
You will be surprised at how loud it is. I found the tone with double Mahogany has been very well received. Also Rosewood/Mahogany and Rosewood/Maple.

All Rosewood maybe/maybe not. Really loud but perhaps a little throaty. Might be my ears. My specs have been around 0.050 inner 0.060 outer.

I’ll be anxious on your thoughts on completion. Nice work!
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First time laminating sides
James Orr wrote:
I honestly haven't had luck with the cycling feature and had been thinking about converting to continuous run to save shelf space. Mine tends to run continuously regardless, but Michael's success makes me want to give it more consideration and another look through to see if I may have set something incorrectly.


If it doesn't shut off, you probably have a small leak.
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