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General shop layout question…
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Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 18, 2023 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  General shop layout question…
Specific to doors….

I thought I’d have time to think about this more but suddenly I don’t.

I’m building out a new shop. 1200ft2 with 12’ ceilings. That’s too big to manage as a single entity for RH and temp.

So I need to put in an RH room. Unfortunately I don’t have a good idea of how I want it laid out. Current shop has been made in dribs and drabs as wanted/needed over time, new one I don’t have that luxury.

I need to commit to some structural decisions that I’ll need to live with for quite some time.

I know many here have built out lots of shops, so I’d like a little input please.

If this was your shop, where, and how many doors would you put leading out of the RH area into the rest of the shop? Any way I map it out in my mind they’re in the way. But I know they have to be there, somewhere.

What would you do?Image
Author:  dofthesea [ Tue Jul 18, 2023 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
I would try and do only one door to the RH room, cuts down on cost and air issues. Do a pair of French doors with dual glazed glass so you can bring in large items. Typically we use a weather stripping called smoked screen that has a 1/8" kerf. So it's easy to replace every few years. Do retractable door sweeps so no door sill is needed. I would also recommend fiberglass doors.
Author:  joshnothing [ Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
You could consider a sliding glass door, like a patio door, which can be pretty readily sealed and wouldn’t need room to swing. That’s what I’d do if I was rebuilding the RH-controlled space in my shop.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
Both good ideas. But I think a patio door requires a bottom sill…
Author:  doncaparker [ Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
I love the sliding glass door idea from Josh, but if you go that route, you should plan out a way to have a ramp and a cover to protect the track at the bottom. You will occasionally want to roll some hefty stuff in and out of that door.
Author:  joshnothing [ Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
The bottom sill is typically not very tall so a ramp wouldn’t be difficult to improvise - or commercial hard rubber ramps are available in these common heights to accommodate wheelchair users. I’d prefer the daily advantages of no swinging door occluding shop space over the (in my case at least) rare occasion of needing to move a heavy machine tool in/out of the room.

Envious of the dimensions you’re working with - my whole shop is only slightly bigger than the space you are earmarking for humidity control! What weather conditions are you dealing with?
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
Pacific Northwest…
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
And yeah, it’s at least 4-5 times bigger than what I’m working in now. Plus it has three giant 9x5 windows for actual natural light…
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
I would move the door to the RH room closer to the other end of the long wall - that might shorten the number of steps you take to enter and leave it. You could further divide it into a humidity controlled side and a heated side to save on btus in the winter. The RH controlled side may want a cooler environment to maintain proper humidity, than the heated side that is comfortable to work in.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
I’m thinking the opposite. I want the RH area to be heat regulated with a heat pump that will hopefully handle RH requirements as well. The RH room is where I spend by far the most time. Tablesaw, edge sander, etc can be in the unregulated areas…
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
Mini-splits are the way to go imho. I get the DIY kits and so far they have saved me a LOT of money over having them professionally installed. And now that I know how to take care of them better they will probably last longer. The first one I bought was $1400 and lasted 8 years. I just bought a Mr. Cool to replace it that was $1600. My shop is about the size of your RH room with a loft above it and one mini works. The local HVAC company quoted me $6k so the ROI on the DIY is real.
Author:  rbuddy [ Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
Just a basic layout suggestion.

I think I'd split the space down the middle into 2 spaces 15x40. Move benches and small tools, finishing into the RH controlled environment.

Keep the unRH area for a tool room for table saw, planer, jointer, long board handling, billet and big wood storage, etc. Unless you don't end up using your shop for bigger projects than guitars

I really like having regular use tools w/in "reach". I think you'll always want more tools and work space in the controlled climate area.

Going in and out of doors to access tools will get old in a hurry -- at least it would for me.

Just my 2c.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
jfmckenna wrote:
Mini-splits are the way to go imho. I get the DIY kits and so far they have saved me a LOT of money over having them professionally installed. And now that I know how to take care of them better they will probably last longer. The first one I bought was $1400 and lasted 8 years. I just bought a Mr. Cool to replace it that was $1600. My shop is about the size of your RH room with a loft above it and one mini works. The local HVAC company quoted me $6k so the ROI on the DIY is real.


It will have to be either a mini split or a heat pump, I’m not sure.

Unfortunately, I do not feel qualified to install either. I’m sure I could learn the skills, but I don’t have time. The work will need to happen on the Island whilst I’m still toiling in the city…
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
rbuddy wrote:
Just a basic layout suggestion.

I think I'd split the space down the middle into 2 spaces 15x40. Move benches and small tools, finishing into the RH controlled environment.

Keep the unRH area for a tool room for table saw, planer, jointer, long board handling, billet and big wood storage, etc. Unless you don't end up using your shop for bigger projects than guitars

I really like having regular use tools w/in "reach". I think you'll always want more tools and work space in the controlled climate area.

Going in and out of doors to access tools will get old in a hurry -- at least it would for me.

Just my 2c.


Yeah, I have also been giving that some serious thought. The double lines in the top left corner indicate a 9x5 window. I had sort of imagined that it would be nice to have one area in the non RH area with natural lighting. The square in the very center indicates a support post, and my initial thought was to just quarter the area straight from the post. But once I started laying out the tools, the huge new shop started getting small real fast, so I pushed the wall back 5 feet to include more ft2 in the RH zone.

I would like to have the shop suitable for more than just guitarmaking. A CNC and a laser cutter are future hopes…
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
meddlingfool wrote:
jfmckenna wrote:
Mini-splits are the way to go imho. I get the DIY kits and so far they have saved me a LOT of money over having them professionally installed. And now that I know how to take care of them better they will probably last longer. The first one I bought was $1400 and lasted 8 years. I just bought a Mr. Cool to replace it that was $1600. My shop is about the size of your RH room with a loft above it and one mini works. The local HVAC company quoted me $6k so the ROI on the DIY is real.


It will have to be either a mini split or a heat pump, I’m not sure.

Unfortunately, I do not feel qualified to install either. I’m sure I could learn the skills, but I don’t have time. The work will need to happen on the Island whilst I’m still toiling in the city…


I mean to say these are truly DIY. The lines come pre-charged with refrigerant. It does require some work. You need to build a pad for the outdoor compressor unit, I simply used cinder blocks, then you need to drill a hole in the wall, mount the indoor unit and then simply attach the precharged lines. Need to do some electrical work too. All in all took me maybe 4-6 hours.

Image
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
meddlingfool wrote:
I’m thinking the opposite. I want the RH area to be heat regulated with a heat pump that will hopefully handle RH requirements as well. The RH room is where I spend by far the most time. Tablesaw, edge sander, etc can be in the unregulated areas…


Hi Ed,
I know that in the winter my house can have RH in the single digits without humidification. The bedroom which I like to have minimally heated keeps a higher RH because of the lower temperature. That is where I keep many of my instruments.
My thinking is that in the winter the temperature in the RH regulated space can be allowed to be kept at a lower temperature to maintain some moisture in the air (less humidification needed), and in the summer the temperature can be allowed to be hotter in that space so less dehumidification is needed to maintain proper RH for materials and guitars not being presently worked on.
Money no object, having the entire shop heated/cooled and humidity regulated would be a nice way to go, but as someone once told me "It's not the money you make, it's the money you keep" that makes the difference between success or failure of a business.
It looks like you will have a nice shop to work in, and you will probably make some changes no matter how you set it up.

P.S. Another thing you may want to do is put a lid on the "RH" space. You probably don't need a 12 ft. ceiling in that area if it is a clean room primarily used for assembly work. If you drop the ceiling to 7 ft. it could give you a 4 ft. high storage area above, and further save on btus.
Advice from someone who pinches pennies some places to piss them away elsewhere! gaah laughing6-hehe

O.T. The Ospreys have been more successful this year:
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
There will certainly be 4’ shelves around most of the inside wall, but the big 9x5 windows go to about 18” from the ceiling…
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
meddlingfool wrote:
There will certainly be 4’ shelves around most of the inside wall, but the big 9x5 windows go to about 18” from the ceiling…


That would provide some natural light in the storage area .... pizza laughing6-hehe
The great thing about soliciting ideas from people is that you don't have to use them. bliss
Everyone's needs and desires are a little different and that is what they speak from, but hopefully you will find a few that work for you.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Jul 20, 2023 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: General shop layout question…
Ha!
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