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Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=55594		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
Hi Folks,

I haven't posted in awhile, but thought I would reach out hoping folks may have addressed this already. I recently got to play a friends Gibson L2 from 30/31, and decided I want to "duplicate" this guitar (although , these were built so light, they are predestined for structural compromise lol). I have always loved the early Gibson hand rubbed bursts, and have done this on other guitars. However, this model has what Gibson called Argentine Grey finish (see attached pic). I am looking to see if anybody has tried to recreate this burst, color wise. I know how I will technically do this, just not sure of what the sunburst colors are. I was going to use vintage amber, which is a good place to start, but the color over it is where I am clueless, the so called "Argentine Grey". doesn't look "grey, but also looks to be just a single color. Not sure if the intent was to have the greenish highlight, or age did that, but I find it pretty cool.

Any Suggestions? Thanks!

Glenn
Attachment:
L2.jpg
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
If it’s almost a century old, what makes you say its predestined for structural compromise?
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
I can't help but I would be keen to understand if there was any red there. The red that Gibson used in this period and moving into later on faded to beat the band. So Glenn my point is that what you see here is likely pretty different from what it looked like new.

A lot of the Les Pauls from the late 50's have lost half of their red or more too.

You know something very similar is a guitar that we see it and another one just like from time to time and it's a Jeff Daniel's signature Martin model. If you google it it looks just like this without any fading yet since they are more recent so that may help inform your path as to what to expect right now.

Here's a pic of a Jeff Daniels Martin. John Hall might know the scoop on what Martin uses to do this.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
Looks like a brown that leans more towards the yellow side than the red side. Transtint Tobacco Brown would get you pretty close.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
meddlingfool wrote:
If it’s almost a century old, what makes you say its predestined for structural compromise?


Since Glenn mentioned it I suspect it's the light build quality. They were very light in this period, ladder braced and time took its toll on them. A bit later the Kalamazoos which were very much like this too were slightly lighter at times.

They were no frills, working person's instruments.
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
These L2 guitars were built EXTREMELY light. They were X braced, but the one I got to play had an extremely thin red spruce top - I could measure it, but I wouldn't be surprised iff under .100, the back braces were barely there. The fingerboard was very thin, and the tail block was the smallest/thinnest I have ever seen. These early 30's L2 were notorious for light builds, with structural issues - Hence my comments :-). The guitar was so light, it practically floated :-).

Hesh, you may be right, but I think this one, the "Argentine grey" finish didn't have any red. Either way, I would love to make it look like the picture as I think it looks really cool - love the old hand rubbed sunbursts.

I will test a few colors, and start with the tobacco brown, as mentioned. I do use transient only, as I really like how the transient comes out (for both acoustic guitars, and bright electric guitars).

Glenn
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
Actually, these L2 models were the 2nd fanciest/most expensive Gibson flat top of the time, behind the Nick Lucas. They were X braced, and extremely light. Gibson started to make them a bit heavier in the mid/late 30's.

Hesh wrote:
meddlingfool wrote:
If it’s almost a century old, what makes you say its predestined for structural compromise?


Since Glenn mentioned it I suspect it's the light build quality. They were very light in this period, ladder braced and time took its toll on them. A bit later the Kalamazoos which were very much like this too were slightly lighter at times.

They were no frills, working person's instruments.
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
For a good overview, just found this video on YouTube. He measured a 1930 L2, .040 bridge plate, .085 top thickness, really small tone bars - all bracing very small. This is why I said destined for structural issues lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHhnj-icdMs
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
I guess it depends on the history of the instrument, but he says the one in the video has had no repairs, and no problems besides the end pin crack. As someone who builds very light, it makes me wonder what is inevitable and what is avoidable with good care.

Anyway, back to Argentine Grey. You may want to reach out to a fellow named Jeff Jewitt.
Author:  Ol'burns [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
I have one on the bench right now...top off and going through a pretty extensive restoration.
Dale Fairbanks is the guy to reach out to in regard to the finish. I'd be happy to help with measurements should you need. The delicate build of these guitars is what makes them such incredible sounding instruments. Mark Stutman has likely handled as many as anyone in existence and could also be a great source to contact.
While the Guitar.com article references the attached instrument as one of Dale's Nick Lucas model guitars, it's looks like his version of a c.1930 L-2 to me.

Attachment:
DF.jpg


Doc
Author:  bcombs510 [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
Glenn, I have been doing a lot of testing of burst to try to find a recipe I like that compliments walnut. I have a recipe I’m calling Appalachian Burst because it uses straw, tobacco brown, and dark walnut as the three colors. Here is a sample, it might be close to what your after. I felt it had greenish gray going on so it might be close?

Image

The drawback for you might be that the center color is “straw” and is a Colortone product. I don’t know if Jeff has an equivalent in Transtint.

I sprayed it with a base of plantina shellac and used 3oz shellac with:

2 x 1/2 tsp of Straw for center and unifying
4 x 1/2 tsp of Tobacco Brown for mid
5 x 1/2 tap of Dark Walnut for outer


Hope that helps!
Brad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
Hi Doc,

Wow, yeah, would love any measurements you have (or pics!)!

Thanks! Glenn

Ol'burns wrote:
I have one on the bench right now...top off and going through a pretty extensive restoration.
Dale Fairbanks is the guy to reach out to in regard to the finish. I'd be happy to help with measurements should you need. The delicate build of these guitars is what makes them such incredible sounding instruments. Mark Stutman has likely handled as many as anyone in existence and could also be a great source to contact.
While the Guitar.com article references the attached instrument as one of Dale's Nick Lucas model guitars, it's looks like his version of a c.1930 L-2 to me.

Attachment:
DF.jpg


Doc
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vintage Gibson Argentine Grey Sunburst?
Thanks Brad! I'll take a look. I'll be applying the color via hand rubbing, and not spraying, to get the affect they had on the older ones. But those colors do look good. Other L2's from 30/31 had a more decidedly greenish tint to them, which is interesting.
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