It’s my first hand cut doodad….
Does it suck? It looks plain doesn’t it. Maybe the body is too big
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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| Opinion on this “butterfly” http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=55536 |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Opinion on this “butterfly” |
It’s my first hand cut doodad…. Does it suck? It looks plain doesn’t it. Maybe the body is too big Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | dofthesea [ Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
Is the wood it's shown on the species it's going to be inlaid on? The green might be off I would try gold mop. But ultimately it just matters if you like it. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
I think some engraving would help it. Try drawing some pencil lines on it to see if you like it, if so grab a graver and go for it. |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
Well, I suck at inlay and engraving so OP is already way ahead of me. |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
dofthesea wrote: Is the wood it's shown on the species it's going to be inlaid on? The green might be off I would try gold mop. But ultimately it just matters if you like it. No … I’m actually thinking about putting it on an end wedge area kinda half on and half off  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
Jim Watts wrote: I think some engraving would help it. Try drawing some pencil lines on it to see if you like it, if so grab a graver and go for it. Not a bad idea. Like I say, it’s my first attempt. I definitely don’t wanna put anything on a super nice guitar that’s gonna look crappy though ha. I’ll keep working on it knowing it’s just “an option”” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
Chris Pile wrote: Well, I suck at inlay and engraving so OP is already way ahead of me. I’m not far ahead of anyone concerning anything haha. I’m sure you could definitely churn something nice out Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
SnowManSnow wrote: It’s my first hand cut doodad…. Does it suck? It looks plain doesn’t it. Maybe the body is too big Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It does not suck! I think if it was mine, I'd refine the joint between the wings, make the body a little bit sleeker and figure out how to add simple antenna. Nice work! |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
 Great job cutting the shell! In my opinion, the body looks a bit fat. It only matters if you are happy with it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
dzsmith wrote: Great job cutting the shell! In my opinion, the body looks a bit fat. It only matters if you are happy with it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I mean I know what you’re saying but it also matters to me if it is right I’m w you in the body Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
Michaeldc wrote: SnowManSnow wrote: It’s my first hand cut doodad…. Does it suck? It looks plain doesn’t it. Maybe the body is too big Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It does not suck! I think if it was mine, I'd refine the joint between the wings, make the body a little bit sleeker and figure out how to add simple antenna. Nice work! I was trying to do antennas… any ideas of material to use? It’s just so fine Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
SnowManSnow wrote: Michaeldc wrote: SnowManSnow wrote: It’s my first hand cut doodad…. Does it suck? It looks plain doesn’t it. Maybe the body is too big Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It does not suck! I think if it was mine, I'd refine the joint between the wings, make the body a little bit sleeker and figure out how to add simple antenna. Nice work! I was trying to do antennas… any ideas of material to use? It’s just so fine Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I’ve used aluminum or brass strips from K&S with good results - something about .020” x .0625” maybe? |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
Michaeldc wrote: SnowManSnow wrote: Michaeldc wrote: [quote="SnowManSnow"]It’s my first hand cut doodad…. Does it suck? It looks plain doesn’t it. Maybe the body is too big Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It does not suck! I think if it was mine, I'd refine the joint between the wings, make the body a little bit sleeker and figure out how to add simple antenna. Nice work! I was trying to do antennas… any ideas of material to use? It’s just so fine Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I’ve used aluminum or brass strips from K&S with good results - something about .020” x .0625” maybe?[/quote] How would I create an inlay pocket That small? Is there a teeeeeny cutter I’m not aware of Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
I’d use something like this if I was doing it by hand. Michael Baskin uses a similar tool for his inlay technique but I believe he makes his own. https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/to ... gIcu_D_BwE |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
Nice job on cutting your first doodad! I have almost no inlay experience, so I am hesitant to comment. This is in no way criticism of the work you have done but intended as observations about the shape. I feel like the proportions need some tweaking. The body looks to be too short, too thick or perhaps a combination of the two. I actually like the shape but it reads more like a caterpillar than a butterfly. Butterfly bodies are slimmer, particularly at the “tail end” and have a more pronounced head. The wings seem, to my untrained eye, to be a little off balance. Making the size of the lower curved portion of the wing smaller relative to the upper might help. Having a pointier transition between the two segments (informing the eye that these are two different wings [front and back]) might also help. Engraving might help to define a head and the wings too. I would be no help there though! Maybe, thin the tail portion of the body, add a small head portion to the front if you still have more shell? I don’t know, I’m just throwing out ideas. I am always fascinated by people who can look at something and be able to tell you how to change lines and curves to make it look better. I wish I had that skill. All I am able to do with my stuff is look at it and know it could be better. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
You might set an abalone dot on the upper end of the body for a "head" and then the body might look better proportioned. Dots are easy to inlay. I think the slight gap between the wings helps to separate them and filling it in with a dark fill material might work well. If you have a fine tip metallic marker pen you could draw on the antennae rather than inlaying wire. I think the body and wings look good as is, I would just add a "head". |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
I think I may shrink that body down … figure a way to use I donno… a guitar string for antennas… and do a little finessing) will report back on this major project ! (My super power is sarcasm):) Seriously thanks for input though! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
Don’t let perfection bar the way to completion…:) |
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| Author: | rbuddy [ Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
Just suggestions Snow- Look at pictures of butterflies. Print the ones you want to emulate. Cut them out and separate into likely shell pieces to play with till you see what you like. Beauty of the butterfly is in the wings, so I'd make the body maybe just a small black head (dot). Otherwise the body detracts from the wings. You are really dealing with 4 wings and I'd separate with a different shell like abalone for the top pair and MOP for the lower. You might find you don't even need the body to get a representation of the butterfly that works. Your brain looks for shape and scale to seem right. I think the wing shape can be improved and the body made much less pronounced or reduced to just a head. Your brain can fill in a missing body but if the body is wrong, it gets stuck there. Antennae would be nice but you are going to run into a scale thing again, trying to cut and inlay something that doesn't look out of proportion. It's just a design thing for you. Printing and cutting actual pictures is an easy way to get scale and shape right. I've used cut pieces of silver wire for stars in a night scene inlay. You can also get silver wire drawn square for finer lines than you can get with other materials. It stays shiny under finish, or has for me. You are 90% there really as your shell cutting looks great! You've obviously got the required skills. Hope that helps some. Brian |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
Many moths have antennae that look like feathers, wide at the base and tapering toward the tip. You could cut those out of shell. I'm not sure about butterflies, though... I usually start by making a drawing of the thing, often over size. I'll scan it in, and reduce it, and then paste multiple copies onto a single sheet in Photoshop. To make the inlay, start with a complicated part that's near the center of the inlay. Cut out that part of the pattern and glue it onto the shell with CA. Cut around it with the saw. Do the same with the piece next to it, and trim them along the joint line (with diamond jewelers files) to fit reasonably closely. Glue the two together with CA, and stick a piece of paper on the top to help hold them while you work on them. Work your way outward that way. If the inlay is going into a curved fingerboard, glue the parts together on a base with the same curve. When I've built up the entire inlay I glue a piece of paper across the whole back, and then sand off the layers of paper on the top, replacing them with a single piece. Measure the thickness and set your Dremel or whatever to make that depth of cut. Stick the inlay down where you want it to go with one small drop of CA in the center. Scribe around it with a sharp point. Pop it off carefully: the paper on the back makes it a bit less risky. Rub chalk into the scribed line, and rout out cavity. Check the size often; you want it to be close, but not so close that you snap the shell pushing it in. For some patterns, especially more abstract ones like Celtic knotwork, it can help to have a black line to separate the parts. I've used black fiber .2 mm thick for this, gluing it in as I go. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinion on this “butterfly” |
There is a really, REALLY good inlay course by Larry Robinson on Robbie O'Brien's Lutherie Academy website. It's 8 hours of instruction, split into beginner, intermediate, and advanced techniques. Time/money well spent. |
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