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Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
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Author:  grantmefood [ Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
Pardon the noob post, but the title says it all. This is my first build, first time shaping a neck. I knew that I didnt have a lot of meat on the bone to work with, as I accidentally went a bit too deep with the truss rod channel. Instead of filling it, I soldiered on and figured it would be fine. Guess not, lesson learned. The fretboard is already glued on with TB and the truss rod (hotrod) is only lightly secured in place with a little CA on the block ends and a small shim above to prevent any rattling when the CA eventually comes loose. Ignore the ugly "volute" (if I can even really call it that).

Image
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
I’ve done it.
Thats means carving a new neck imo


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Author:  dzsmith [ Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
Same here using the SM hot rod.
The hot rod takes up too much vertical height and requires an odd sized router bit to create the channel.
A standard two-way rod is the way to go.
I tried to repair my mistake and finally gave up.
Best of luck!
Author:  grantmefood [ Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
SnowManSnow wrote:
I’ve done it.
Thats means carving a new neck imo


Ugh, that's what I was afraid of. Just for kicks, do you know what the risk is of leaving it as-is for the sake of finishing the guitar and calling it a learning experience? Could the truss rod eventually come through the back of the neck over time because there's so little wood supporting it? I already have back and sides sets for numbers 2 and 3, so this only the start for me.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
Don't do it.

The learning experience here is a total do over. It's okay - take your time and do it right. As a beginner it certainly is acceptable to let some, if not most most, mistakes fly but this is not one of them.

We've all been there done that on making mistakes that require do overs, do it again and you will be happier for it ;)
Author:  DennisK [ Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
Time for a new neck, unfortunately. Use something other than hot rod if you like slim necks. Even when flush with the surface, its slot depth is cutting it pretty close.

If you really want to save that neck, you could glue a shim and switch to a single compression rod since they don't put pressure on the bottom of the slot.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
Had a Hot Rod punch through a neck. I use Martin two-way or Blanchard rods now - they’re not as tall.

Make the new neck. You’ll be glad you did.


Steve
Author:  grantmefood [ Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
Thanks for all the replies and the advice everyone. I feel like I've spent so much time trying to fine tune so many little details on this neck and I guess I'm a little emotionally invested now haha. I'll pick up a new neck blank and rod from LMI, perhaps another fretboard blank too and hang this neck on the wall as a reminder of what not to do.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
It’s hard to redo thing when you have put so much effort into them. We’ve all been there and most of us have a few things hanging on the wall too.


Steve
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
Yep, that’s gone baby gone. However, with a bit of effort you might be able to salvage the fingerboard…
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
Grant buddy we sometimes do ghost work for builders if their stuff is good and we had a builder who built a Les Paul, absolutely beautiful instrument and he had sanded too close to the edge also with the StewMac Hot Rod and as soon as we started doing the necessary and usual truss rod adjustments to fret the thing the rod came through the back of the neck.

It's a redo and sorry this happened to you. It always happens with the dang StewMac Hot rod too which is likely why they came out with the shorter one but they really should take this rod off the market it's ruined too many people's day and it's not notable in any other way.

The Martin two way rod and the Blanchard rod are both excellent choices going forward.

And this happens to many of us from time to time just get past it to the other side and you won't even remember it at some point. That's my story :) Welcome to the forum too man!
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
use this truss rod Bitter root guitars also sells them. They are reliable and use a different construction. Much more reliable
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... d&_sacat=0
I had a few of the stew macs fail and will never use them
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
I have a banjo neck that I screwed up late-in-the-game years ago. Wasn't my first neck by a long shot, but it was toast. I still have it hanging on my shop wall as a reminder of what not to do...

Dave
Author:  grantmefood [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
bluescreek wrote:
use this truss rod Bitter root guitars also sells them. They are reliable and use a different construction. Much more reliable
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... d&_sacat=0
I had a few of the stew macs fail and will never use them

Thanks John, I just ordered a handful of them so I don’t have to worry about that on my next few builds


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Author:  grantmefood [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
Hesh wrote:
Grant buddy we sometimes do ghost work for builders if their stuff is good and we had a builder who built a Les Paul, absolutely beautiful instrument and he had sanded too close to the edge also with the StewMac Hot Rod and as soon as we started doing the necessary and usual truss rod adjustments to fret the thing the rod came through the back of the neck.

It's a redo and sorry this happened to you. It always happens with the dang StewMac Hot rod too which is likely why they came out with the shorter one but they really should take this rod off the market it's ruined too many people's day and it's not notable in any other way.

The Martin two way rod and the Blanchard rod are both excellent choices going forward.

And this happens to many of us from time to time just get past it to the other side and you won't even remember it at some point. That's my story :) Welcome to the forum too man!

That would be an awful thing to experience! Thanks for the anecdotes Hesh. I need to be better about taking my time with this build. I’ve had so many other competing priorities in my shop, mostly from the ol’ home renovation honey-do list, that I haven’t had good long stretches of time to work on this. I’m rushing things in the interest of getting #1 completed and playable, clearly to my own detriment.


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Author:  doncaparker [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
I am definitely one of those persons who believes in letting minor mistakes go on the early guitars you build, and moving along. If you insist on perfection from guitar #1, you will never finish a guitar, and the only way to get better is to build more guitars, so you need to finish them, learn from the mistakes, and move on. But there are some mistakes that won't let a guitar be a functional guitar. This is one of them. Unfortunately, you really need to start over on the neck.

The recommendations for the Martin two way rod are great recommendations. The specific style of Bitterroot truss rod that is designed almost exactly like the Martin rod is here:

https://www.bitterrootguitars.com/truss ... 2214-s.htm

In my opinion, this Martin style of two way rod is pretty much perfect. They work great, they don't fail, they are not expensive, and they don't take up a lot of room in the neck. The only downside is that you need to cut a slightly larger channel for about an inch of the adjustment end, because it is slightly larger than the rest of the rod. But that just means buying and using two router bits for the installation instead of just one. Small price to pay. Good luck!
Author:  Clay S. [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
If you have a table saw and can remove the fretboard and truss rod you can cut through the back of the neck at the truss rod slot and add a contrasting spline to fill the slot and then recut it for a lower profile truss rod.
The cut can be made using a simple jig that allows you to keep the slot aligned with the path of the saw blade. By carefully raising the blade up through the back of the neck the peghead and heel will remain uncut and hold the neck in alignment. A decorative center stripe has been a feature on many necks in the past so will not look unintentional.
As with most power tools a good familiarity with using a table saw is required and a way to hold the work firmly with hands away from the saw path is needed.
Author:  grantmefood [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
doncaparker wrote:
The only downside is that you need to cut a slightly larger channel for about an inch of the adjustment end, because it is slightly larger than the rest of the rod. But that just means buying and using two router bits for the installation instead of just one. Small price to pay. Good luck!


I built a jig for cutting the truss rod channel using guide bushings for my plunge router and I also have a wide variety of spiral bit sizes, so I don’t think this’ll be much of an issue. Thanks for calling that out though!

I decided that I’m going to try to salvage the fingerboard today and possibly fill the bottom of the channel in the neck with an off cut of mahogany using a much slimmer truss rod. I think I should be able to get 1/4” of material in there, at least. I’ll throw the hot rod in the parts drawer, but I’m not sure when I’ll ever use it at this point.


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Author:  grantmefood [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
Clay S. wrote:
If you have a table saw and can remove the fretboard and truss rod you can cut through the back of the neck at the truss rod slot and add a contrasting spline to fill the slot and then recut it for a lower profile truss rod.
The cut can be made using a simple jig that allows you to keep the slot aligned with the path of the saw blade. By carefully raising the blade up through the back of the neck the peghead and heel will remain uncut and hold the neck in alignment. A decorative center stripe has been a feature on many necks in the past so will not look unintentional.
As with most power tools a good familiarity with using a table saw is required and a way to hold the work firmly with hands away from the saw path is needed.

Thanks for that Clay. I do have a table saw, as well as a dado stack, which might make that operation slightly faster. We’ll see how the fingerboard pull goes, then I’ll reevaluate once I get the new truss rods in to see what I’m working with. I have plenty of walnut off cuts in the shop that would make for a nice contrasting spline to match the rest of the guitar.


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Author:  Clay S. [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
I found a picture of the jig I use for slotting necks for truss rods - the same as the drawing above. Obviously when cutting a truss rod slot you don't raise the blade as high!
Be careful using a dado blade. It creates much more resistance than a regular blade so requires holding the work more firmly and sometimes doesn't give as clean of a cut, but if you have a good one it should allow you to make a single pass.
Author:  grantmefood [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
Well, I got the fingerboard off successfully. Despite dozens of projects leaving my shop over the years (mostly furniture pieces) I've never had to non-destructively separate an assembly. I tried using the heat mat for my bending machine first, clamped to the fingerboard with spring steel on either side and a caul on top, but that just wasnt cutting it. I grabbed the clothes iron (much to my wife's chagrin) and found much more success in getting an old plane blade and putty knife in there to get the job done.

Image

Image

Next, I decided I would test the limits of this neck and try to correct my mistake with a mahogany shim I made that very snugly fits in the truss rod slot to fill the bottom, glued with epoxy. This image illustrates the advice you all have given to start over and do it right. There was almost nothing left of the neck behind the truss rod and this would have probably failed in a very short amount of time. The shim gives me a lot of meat left to re-cut the slot for the new rod when they arrive. You'll certainly see this on the back of the neck, but it'll be functional and a reminder of the mistake. I still plan to make a new neck btw.

Image
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
There are very few things that you can get a group of luthiers to agree on, but if there were to be one thing, it is this; in the name of marital harmony…buy your own iron! ;)
Author:  dofthesea [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
When I was married, I borrowed my wife's Iron, well let me tell you that annoyed her off royally, so I went and bought the best one I could, not know that a $15 dollar one works just fine, well low and behold, my Iron went missing, the wife and snagged it and said it was better then her's so she confiscated it.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
10 bucks at a thrift store should score you a nice shop cloths iron.

I've been using the Bitterroot rods for a few years now and like them quite a bit and they come in a full range of sizes.
Author:  CarlD [ Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sanded through neck to truss rod. How screwed am I?
I read Ed's comment to my wife and she said "AND YOUR OWN HAIR DRYER!"
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