Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey all. As a training experience, I am trying to take apart an old beat-up Applause 1/2 size guitar and put all new top and neck on it. Does anyone know how to remove an Ovation-style neck? I don't see a neck block, nor any bolts. I imagine I just have to heat the fretboard to loosen the top, but I don't know for sure about heel of the neck. Any advice would be helpful, I know it is not a valuable guitar, but that is exactly why I am experimenting on it.

Thanks,

Steve Ryan
(310) 623-7578

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

You might want to consider neck removal carefully! As I understand it, the neck is set in epoxy and it doesn't have the best of fit with the rest of the guitar.

I have an "Abomovation" that has had a crack through the heel for years and have asked a lot of people about it but few seem to know much about them because they're considered throw-aways by many luthiers. Thus, Daves terse, if not extremely amusing response!

Of what I understand, it's a tenon fit like in a Les Paul, but sloppy.

I'll be interested about what others say too!

They make great flower pots!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

My suggestion would be a wood chipper. If the whole guitar goes through by mistake, oh well...

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Steve, this may or may not be of some assistance to your, ahem, training. There is an ovation neck up for sale on eBay. One of the pictures is of the neck tendon, which is surprisingly a metal stub with two honking bolts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... otohosting

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Aoibeann

I've been amused for years now at the reaction and comments the Ovation brings out from luthiers and players. I had no experience with the guitar until I began my self-imposed internet-based guitarbuilding apprenticeship 5 years ago. Now, each time someone mentions the brand name, a deluge of negative opinion just seems to rain down upon the thread.

On Saturday, I was visiting a builder/repair friend's shop when a customer arrived to pick up his 30 year old Ovation which had been in for an intonation correction. (my first question was, "why did it take 30 years to figure it didn't sound right?). The top just happened to have 2 large cracks and a significant low humidity cave-in which seemed to bother him less than the intonation issue! Since there were others in the shop, I didn't want to initiate a conversation about the poor reputation of Ovations, but plan to when I visit him again.

I think it would be interesting for those here who have experienced Ovations both as players as well as repairers to list your experiences so that we can get a sense of where the brand went wrong.

Of course...please make sure someone answers Steve's question adequately first.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

an Applause should be bolted on......

Lillians link should help you out Steve. I have heard they are epoxied in too. If so and with those big bolts, that's a strong neck joint!! I had an Ovation many years ago and I remember the neck was very comfortable to play.That round plastic back is awful though.I didn't like the under saddle pickup either! Yep,They have a very bad rep. around here. I sold the one I had after a couple of months dealing with the guitar sliding out of my lap!

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

Mario's right, Applause necks were bolt-ons, at least the one or two that I've encountered.

Cal

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Remember, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers!

Steve-

Any experience you gain from this will not transfer all that well. Ovation/Applause neck joints are a particular abomination. The adhesives used throughout are better suited to spacecraft, than instruments. Seriously, you may be wasting your time, energy, and enthusiasm on this.

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

I know Ovations have a bad rap - especially for the wood lovers among us (I believe that is all of us), but just to be objective for a moment and buck the trend I thought I might respond to JJ's invitation.

I bought a solid top Ovation about 20 years ago, used, for a couple hundred dollars with the intention of having something to play "around the campfire." You know, something I could hand around and play hard, leave it on the porch, and not worry about it. That guitar served me well, had great action, so even beginners could play it all day without drawing blood. I have played a lot of $5000 Martins that played worse. It sounded ok, and better than some "popular" brands today, especially for the money. Not loud, but an acceptable amount of guitar like sound. Last year, after my first homemade guitar came out of my shop, I gave it to a neighbor kid for $10. Surprised him with it one day when he was hanging around the house. He grinned for days and still waves whenever we see each other on the block. So that guitar, probably 30 years old is still making someone happy. Say what you want, plastic guitars they are, but I liked what mine did for me.

On the other hand, you won't learn a lot, imho, about how to build a guitar by deconstructing one.

I too am relatively new to the forum and have noted, with some interest, the negative vibe here regarding Ovations. I have two higher end Ovations. One is a 1994 special issue. I like 'em both, with the exception of them rolling off one's lap, while playing. However, back in the day, they were more comfortable strapped on and performing standing up, IMO.

Also, 30 years ago when I bought my first Ovation, you could walk into 90% of music stores and the Ovation was easier to play than the Gibson and Martin accoustics, as most dealers didn't spend any effort setting up guitars. They were louder, too. Louder seemed better, then, right?

Having said all that, I have not picked up an Applause model that I would buy. I would not buy a Martin laminate model either. I thing the market defines it about right. The high end Ovation is worth what it cost, which is still about $3K to $4K less than a Collings.

I look forward to the day when my builds are good enough that I can sneer at Ovations, too. Anyone want to trade a stash of BRW or highly fiqured Koa for a couple Ovations?

Danny R. Little

I know couple pro players that travel with Ovations one of them brought me in one that had the ABS rosette and part of the top on a Balladeer caught on fire. He brought it to me to have a new top put on it. I go in touch with Ovation to see how they handled fretboard removal on repairs, and found out they don't. They replace the guitar. the epoxy they use is not at all easy to separate with out doing damage. One of the whole intents of this design is to be environmentally as stable as a guitar can be so neck repair ability was abandoned in favor of a neck that should go with out needing reset or repaired. Just part of the design philosophy of the Ovation.

if I remember correctly Applause was originally a separate company that took advantage of a loop hole in the Ovation patent and built a low end consumer model and was bolt on neck at that time. but Applause absorbed by Ovation after Kaman took over Ovation and Applause became the Ovation entry level line.

Aluminum neck and fretboard(and yes, cast-in frets). No epoxies....

AKA: piece of sh!t.

Yeper that is an originial pre Kaman Applause. A classic in on right

Where it went wrong....it started making guitars.

When I was just a wee laddy, (ok, a teenager) I sold my drum set and bought a Glen Campbell model Ovation. At first I loved it, until the neck kept going S shaped. A bow in one location, a warp in another. Not sure what was up with that. Had it straightened a couple times, but finally sold it to a college kid for a couple hundred bucks. I replaced it with a Guild D40c. I don't have that anymore either....I replaced that with a LoPrinzi, which I rarely play.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Self explainatory!

Abomovations are setup with a common intonation problem in many Ive heard! Especially apparent in the upper registers. I recently saw a video of Al Dimeola with Paco De Luca and John McLaughlin. The minute Al started smearing the abomovation sound around you could hear it right away! It was hard to tell but it even looked like JML kind of winced at it.

If they get setup by a competent luthier they improve but still have a kind of harsh trash can like sound! The tones are more pure as I hear it but the overtones/harmonics are what give the guitar it sound in the first place. Thus the perception of more volume.

Combine with the poor intonation..... you have a poor rep!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

Interesting Billy and another bit of information about its reputation that I didn't know. I guess a chronic case of intonitis might turn a few folks sour.

I got an off line message last night from someone who once owned an Ovation back in the 70's and made his purchasing decision based upon the fact that it had much better setup and playability than any Martin or Gibson acoustic at the time. He was also a stage performer at the time and stated that it was the only acoustic that played well amplified.

And while he was defending the brand of the 70's he could not comment on the contemporary Ovations. Of particular note was the fact that he did not wish to become embroiled in this thread. What I took from that comment is that there might be a lot of buyer remorse out there. Yet the brand still seems to be popular based on the number of models seen hanging on the walls at GC.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Understandable! They're still appealing in appearance to many. Don't get me wrong, get it set up right they can play and get a sound out there. Especially amplified where you lose a lot of the nuance anyway! They are generally more stable because of the plastic. There's advantages to them but on the overall they fall far far short!

Compare them to even a Taylor or Larivee the difference become evident immediately, let alone a custom built by a skilled luthier.

I remember the 70's when Glen Campbell first was playing them, it seemed like everybody had one! You don't see that now.

Just because it sells...!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

I bought an ovation legend in 1981. I was 15 years old. I liked it because the narrow neck made it more comfortable for me to play (I now prefer a wider neck for fingerpicking). Although I haven't taken it out of the case for some time now (especially since I strung up my first build) it has served me well for a number of years. Intonation problems? Yes, perhaps. Well made? perhaps not, however this guitar has been under string tension since I bought it in 1981. I've taken it camping countless times where it has been subjected to unspeakable tortures and it still looks and plays the way it did then.

I am not saying it is a fine example of lutherie, but it has served its purpose and held up well. It's also a fine keepsake from my youth.

Ben

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- Ben Pak
North Wales, Pa.

Can you say Keith Partridge.........

Nah ... Neil Diamond was the classic Ovation user for me.

Him too...

Actually my aversion toward O*ations is unfounded. Some of the O*ations that I have played, mostly high-end models and when circumstances warranted that one go ugly early, sounded and played very well.

I think that the basis for my personal bias here is that they are not using traditional materials - wood, and that it's hard for me to understand purchasing a guitar that was designed by people who make helicopters. Not that there is anything wrong with making helicopters mind you....

Lillian found the above pic which is quite amazing piece of work.

I hear all the comments on the Applause and Ovation brands, wow.

Reminds me of similar responses on the Baby Taylor I recently restored.

From experience, it's always more satisfying to work on a quality instrument for sure. But... you may derive some pleasure and knowledge working on a villified brand or model.

One of the things I've learned working on less valuable instruments, it's mostly a waste of time, unless someone is paying luthier wages for you to do so.

There can be other reasons though, sentimental value, and as we mentioned, the educational value. Or just pleasure from fixing some useless piece to a playable condition.....

I've caught both of my son's grabbing the Baby off the wall over the past month for a quick rendition of Michelle, Blackbird, or a rockin' Christian tune................. ahhhhhhhhh, success!

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Does anyone remember Jim Croce?

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- Ben Pak
North Wales, Pa.