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Very hard ebony fretboard
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=54346		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Colin North [ Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Very hard ebony fretboard
Been fretting a board with my normal fret wire, tang 0.020" wide, slots are my normal 0.024" and the barbs measure ~0.033" across.
Very tight to get the frets in and quite a back bow in the neck afterwards.
Using a shop made fret barber, I've got the barb width down to 0.0265, only 2 1/2 thou more than the slot width, and it's still pretty dang tight to get the frets in over the FB extension (using a fret buck)
I'm used to ebony being harder to fret then rosewood, more than half my boards are ebony, but this wood seems ridiculous hard.
Anyone else encountered ebony like this?
Author:  bftobin [ Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
I have two saw blades, one for rosewood and one for ebony. Makes life a lot easier.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
Do you use glue? It helps the fret being pressed.
Author:  Colin North [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
I use glue
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
Have not encountered ebony that hard but both Dave and I think that ebony is not well suited for a fret board and neither of us if we ever build again will use it for that reason.

We are speaking of ebony, old ebony's penchant to chip when removing frets. We don't get this with rosewood of African Blackwood or maple, etc.

But we have to work with it because that's what others use.

When we are concerned that the fret slot is too tight we may also address the slots with the SM two blade tool or the hook tool to clean out the slots more and make them a tad wider. There is a feel to when I press a fret that I am looking for where it goes in rather easy but still with some resistance. Short of this it's four strategically placed frets, string it up and check for back bow, two more, string it up and check for back bow.... the compression refret slog.

We don't use glue to lubricate a fret slot and want to know if it's tight because of the back bow risk. So we press and when a fret is fully seated and still clamped with the Jaws II tool we wick thin CA in on one side and it migrates under and around the fret and to the other side right before our eyes. Next.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
I like to make the slots wider than usual and glue them in. I still have to hammer them in but not with a lot of force.
Author:  Colin North [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
I've just ordered 0.6 and 0.7 mm (.0236 and 0.0276") blades with adapter for my pProxxon table saw. Finally located a supplier who said he could make that custom, very reasonable price.
Author:  Ernie Kleinman [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
Ebony is a total PITA for refretting. One method I use to prevent chipping is using vy thin super glue to saturate both edges of the fret prior to removing. For extra insurance I use some tape on either side of the fret. I will concur with Hesh tones assessment. I too am not fond of ebony, But the customer is king not me. If I had my druthers I would use rosewood only E>G> morado bolivian rosewood, patagonain rosewood vietnam rosewood and BRW. indian which is softer can be used on ukes. Try it an see what works best for you
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
I find the Chip Stoppers from StewMac are pretty useful on ebony fretboards although they're no use on Gibson boards with the nibs on the ends.
Author:  Colin North [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
They're not the same as Chip Stoppers but i find these help pretty good.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181156113815?hash=item2a2dbeed97:g:YTMAAOxyrjZRuzBh
Pulling the frets the strip is trapped against the wood as the nipper closes, works with nub ends too.
Author:  Colin North [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
[:Y:] So, frets are all in, truss rod and weights overnight took out the back bow a lot, set straight with a little forward truss rod movement, and settling overnight again before leveling and crowning.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
Colin North wrote:
They're not the same as Chip Stoppers but i find these help pretty good.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181156113815?hash=item2a2dbeed97:g:YTMAAOxyrjZRuzBh
Pulling the frets the strip is trapped against the wood as the nipper closes, works with nub ends too.


That's a good idea Colin, looks like the fingerboard guards I got from StewMac a long time ago. Didn't think about using them for pulling frets. I'll try that next time I do a Gibson refret.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
I've fretted many very hard f.bs
After I cut the slots & glued the f.b. on -then shaped it for what ever guitar
I take a small triangle file & run it across all slots.This open the top of the slot a bit
& allows it easier get the fret into the slot.
BUT all has to be perfect-slot width-depth & the slot is clear of dust -etc.

Mike
Author:  Colin North [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
Mike Collins wrote:
I've fretted many very hard f.bs
After I cut the slots & glued the f.b. on -then shaped it for what ever guitar
I take a small triangle file & run it across all slot.This open the top of the slot a bit
& allows it easier get the fret into the slot.
BUT all has to be perfect-slot width-depth & the slot is clear of dust -etc.

Mike

Yes I always do that with the triangular file and check the slots are deep enough and clear. The new saw blades should help a lot, an extra 4 thou for ebony board should be good
Author:  Mike Collins [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
don't make the slots in Rosewood to wide.



MIke
Author:  Colin North [ Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
Mike Collins wrote:
don't make the slots in Rosewood to wide.



MIke

Promise, pinky promise, I ll keep then .023" for rosewood, only try the 0.028" for ebony.
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
Colin sorry for the high-jack I'll go stifle myself after this post my friend but I wanted to comment on chip stopping on ebony or any board.

1). Did you know that your fret nippers were originally engineered to gently lift the fret from the slot while at the same time the flat face of the nippers registered on the board and prevented chipping? The bevels in the nippers were originally designed along with the nipper face to work in conjunction where the face was flat on the board preventing a chip from happening and the bevel angle was such, 40 degrees or so so as to gently lift the fret, not pull.... never pull that's how you chip the board, the nippers gently lift the fret by the act of closing them.

2). Now this seems to be lose in that this is how the first iteration of SM nippers worked (we have a pair) but all others since then the bevel angle is too shallow or the face is not flat enough so we Luthiers who had to tool up later missed out on the best nippers.

Anyway another way not to get chips OR to contain a chip so we can tack it back down at once with thin CA is to draw a bead of water next to the fret that we are going to "lift" not "pull" never pull a fret.... Then I hit the fret with my soldering gun (Old Weller gun type) with a groove filed in the special tip to register on and stay on a fret crown. Moving the tip from fret ent to fret end and following with the nippers gently closing letting the bevels "lift" the fret I hardly ever get any chips. The water is sizzling by the way and some steam happens too. Don't stand in a swimming pool and do this either.......

So if the old ebony does chip the bead of water contains the chip and prevents it from flying across the room and hitting Dave in the head. He hates when that happens. :)

Back to our regularly scheduled program and again sorry Colin my bad.
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Very hard ebony fretboard
Hesh wrote:
Colin sorry for the high-jack I'll go stifle myself after this post my friend but I wanted to comment on chip stopping on ebony or any board.
...................... Anyway another way not to get chips OR to contain a chip so we can tack it back down at once with thin CA is to draw a bead of water next to the fret that we are going to "lift" not "pull" never pull a fret.... Then I hit the fret with my soldering gun (Old Weller gun type) with a groove filed in the special tip to register on and stay on a fret crown. Moving the tip from fret end to fret end and following with the nippers gently closing letting the bevels "lift" the fret I hardly ever get any chips. The water is sizzling by the way and some steam happens too. .......................

No problem Hesh, I was actually thinking about going back to this thread this morning to post about the water and soldering iron (I probably picked up the idea from you originally).
The FB protectors I posted are only 0.001" thick, and allows the nipper really good access to lift the frets with minimal marking of the FB.
Different slot and width sizes for different fret sizes/ positions - (I got a full set), a very well thought out system. (I have no ties to seller)
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