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Speaking about setups
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=54332		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  banjopicks [ Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Speaking about setups
I generally follow the rule of fretting the string at the 3rd fret and watching the gap diminish as I lower the slot. I think I would prefer to use a dial indicator in the future. Sometimes I feel like the strings can actually rest on the first fret but without actual measurements, I can easily go overboard and have to start from scratch. I have a couple of digital indicators that I'm going to use the next time I do a setup. Should be pretty easy to make the holder like SM sells out of wood. I think this would bring my setups to a new level.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Speaking about setups
For setting nut slots I fret the string on the soundhole side of the second fret then look at clearance over the first fret. As long as your dial indicator is setup properly using it to measure is not a bad thing but I would also tap the string over the first fret as you work and you will hear the pitch go up as you reduce the clearance. With experience you can do without the dial indicator, in my opinion of course.

This is my daily player and gig guitar. Clearance at the first fret is only a few thou. Goes up to about 0.005" at the low E.

Image
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speaking about setups
I think the hard thing about cutting nut slots is control of the file angle. You can be filing and the gap does not seem to be moving much and then you lower the angle without even being aware of it. Then you take a couple of stokes and you've gone too far. I made a little wedge of wood that sits right in front of the nut to guide the angle. Helped a lot.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speaking about setups
r.e. the angle of the slot, agreed it is important for the bottom of the slot to be linear and not to file in a hump or you will ruin the slot. As far as setting the angle, I look at the angle of string going from the nut to the tuner or string tree and file the slot at about 1/2 that. That's the way I was taught.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speaking about setups
That is not my point. Maintaining the angle during filing is the issue I am talking about. A slight lowering of the angle will remove material at the critical front edge quickly and take you too far.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speaking about setups
Since I figure most players use ALL the neck, not just part of it - when doing setups or making a nut I check measurements only at the first fret, and the last - on all strings.

The only time I measure at the 12th is on certain flattop acoustics with neck issues. It's when I have to do a half-assed job either because of the clients inability to pay, or if the guitar has issues that render normal considerations to be a moot point.

The important thing is to be consistent in your measuring and in tool usage when removing material. I use the same tool EVERY time, and I check measurements the same way EVERY time. If I learned one thing as a tool & die machinist, it's consistency in your work habits yield superior results.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speaking about setups
To get an idea of what that space over the first fret should look like put a capo on the first fret then press and hold the string on the 4th fret and look at the airspace over the second. You can on the first 2 or 3 strings actually make the nut slot lower than the first fret because as the string exits the nut slot and heads towards the saddle there is actually a little bit of a rise because of the stiffness in the metal string. I like to keep the bass strings higher though because people tend to bang on open chords. But that of course depends on their playing style.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speaking about setups
Quote:
I like to keep the bass strings higher though because people tend to bang on open chords. But that of course depends on their playing style.


It's simply physics - the larger mass of the string requires a large envelope in which to vibrate.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speaking about setups
Barry Daniels wrote:
That is not my point. Maintaining the angle during filing is the issue I am talking about. A slight lowering of the angle will remove material at the critical front edge quickly and take you too far.


Got ya, that is also another area where the nut can be ruined and I'm sure we've all ruined a few, I know I have.
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speaking about setups
We have a special dial indicator that Dave made that rides in the nut slot and registers on the first three frets and gives a precise measurement of string clearance of the first fret. But we only use it triage incoming instruments with no strings on them on the triage bench so we know what to advise the customer that the thing needs. If it needs nut work we want to be able to determine this even when it does not have strings on it so we can charge for it.

I do all our set-ups at around 1,000 a year or so and that means I cut a whole lot of nut slots in a day. It's WAY faster to simply fret and hold between the 2nd and 3rd and then observe the gap between the first fret crown and the bottom of the string who's nut slot is being cut. With experience we will learn how low you can go but we take the high e to .0005" and at times lower....

So I'm looking for a gap, a sliver of light and also... also listening to hear a "tink" when I pulse the string. The absence of that tink sound means the string is laying on the first fret and of course that Ravi Cankersore sitar tone tells me I went too low too.

Why do we go as low as we can and learn to go as low as we can? Because it makes for an instrument that is WAY easier to play and plays in tune more consistently because high nut slots cause unwanted string stretch.... It will also let our clients make the F bare chord and other stuff they may have been struggling with.
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