Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Mon Nov 25, 2024 7:40 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:08 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:17 pm
Posts: 128
First name: Dave
Last Name: Baley
City: Goleta
State: California
Zip/Postal Code: 93117
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
I am doing a setup on a brand new BMG guitars Red Special.
I noted that the zero fret is WAY higher than the other frets so the open strings sit very high above the fret plane. This doesn't make sense to me from a playability point of view and is contrary to how I have seen zero frets in the past.
It does not seem to be a mistake.
What would be the advantage to design a guitar with a very high zero fret that makes fretting more difficult and makes intonation etc worse? I'm just unable to come up with an explanation. Anybody have a reason for this or experience with this?

Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:19 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5821
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Poor manufacturing choices.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:36 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:52 am
Posts: 1263
City: Lawrence
State: Kansas
Zip/Postal Code: 66047
Status: Amateur
I've used a zero fret on a couple of parlor guitars and the zero fret ended up the same height as the other frets

_________________
Say what you do, Do what you say.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:12 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5821
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Yes, zero frets should be the same height as all the frets - not higher. Some manufacturers don't get the message.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:19 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7376
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Most of the setups I do on new guitars need the frets to be leveled if you want a good playing neck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:48 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5493
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Interestingly recently saw a zero fret offering with an offset crown, presumably to help with intonation.
https://tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/sintoms-zero-fret-with-tang-2-5mm-wide-1-39mm-high-25-nickel-curved-piece.html

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:18 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 279
First name: Chris
Last Name: Reed
City: Stowmarket
State: Suffolk
Zip/Postal Code: IP14 2EX
Country: UK
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I like zero frets. My zero fret is the same size as all the others, but I only level the playing frets and not the zero. This leaves it a fraction higher than the rest.

If I were really good at fret work it could be levelled with the rest, but leaving it a fraction higher helps reduce string rattle at the 1st and 2nd if the player has a heavy right hand. Or at least, that's my thinking.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:00 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7376
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
The way I look at it the zero fret is just another fret. If you don't have string rattle when you're fretting the the first or second fret then you won't have string rattle on a level zero fret.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:19 am 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:23 am
Posts: 22
Location: Minnesota
First name: Viktor
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
SteveSmith wrote:
The way I look at it the zero fret is just another fret. If you don't have string rattle when you're fretting the the first or second fret then you won't have string rattle on a level zero fret.

To Steve’s comment: That would seem to be the case, but when you fret the string, you exert downward pressure that may cause it to arch up slightly over the next fret and not buzz. Of course, there is also pressure at the nut because of the headstock angle, but my guess is that because this is always present, the string settles in (gets slightly bent) at the nut, the arch disappears.
That this arching of the string occurs is demonstrated by the fact that you can often remove buzzing by simply fretting harder.
Viktor


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:06 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7376
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
I agree the arch is there and it is also there on the nut. If the nut slots are flat, filing them at an angle can increase the clearance just a bit over the first fret maybe saving the cost/time for a new nut on an inexpensive guitar. I do a lot of setups but very few are zero frets but I have had no complaints from my clients. Regardless, everyone has their methods and as long as you like the results then all is good.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 67 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com