Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - String choice for Early Martin

IMHO any of the tensions of nylon strings will be fine. Assuming of course the internals of the guitar are in good shape. Got any pics? I'm restoring one now dated 1860, probably very similar. I'm curios what the top bracing looks like in yours.

I have reset these and with the ice cream cone heel and rebuilt one. They are a beautiful joint and are the epitome of extreme craftsmanship. Sad the value of these are under $5000 , but they are a great piece to own. I have had them as early as 1847 and as late as pre 1890 . I like the non X braced ones more on gut string but the silk and steel will work.

Are the Savarez a higher tension that ail and steel? I am curious. I know Savarez makes the 520 in normal and high tension and I’ve used the high tension on a previously owned Lyon and Healy, but I thought normal tension would work.

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jfmckenna wrote:

Here is a sketch of the bracing pattern. I tried putting a light in the guitar but the transmission was poor. I used the basic form from earlymartin.com and added the bracing.

That looks like a . . . great piece of Americana guitar history.

Author:	nathanpeirson [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:15 am ]
Post subject:	String choice for Early Martin
Hi folks, I just acquired a 1867 Martin 2-20. It is in pretty good shape but could use a neck reset at some point. It has the ice cream cone neck heel and I really don't want to do it myself...anyway, that is for another forum. I was wondering if any of you have recommendations for strings. The previous owner was told tune it a step lower and keep nylon strings on it. I agree but wonder if the high tension nylon strings are too much tension and should I go with normal or low tension? Any thoughts? Happy to post photos if anyone is interested.

Author:	jfmckenna [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
IMHO any of the tensions of nylon strings will be fine. Assuming of course the internals of the guitar are in good shape. Got any pics? I'm restoring one now dated 1860, probably very similar. I'm curios what the top bracing looks like in yours.

Author:	Clay S. [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
If you want to spring for the cost of a set of gut strings you might be pleasantly surprised. They cost a bit more and don't last as long as nylon, and are more humidity sensitive but are what it originally used (and I think they sound better but YMMV). Aquilla makes nylgut - a plastic string that is supposed to mimic gut, so that is also an option. I've had a couple of early Martin guitars. One of them could handle extra light steel strings, and one which was so lightly built I wouldn't put high tension nylon strings on. They varied back then just as they do today.

Author:	DennisK [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
Aquila Ambra 800.

Author:	ballbanjos [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
Real gut strings still sound much better to my ears than any of the synthetics. Much brighter and livelier, and if cared for properly can last a long time. The key here is trying to move the wear points (on frets) around so they don't wear out at a frequently used fret. Especially on the thin strings. Not a real big deal. You can also dab a bit of shellac or nail polish on spots that are starting to show some wear. Again, being a banjo guy, you can listen to old 78 rpm recordings of Fred Van Eps, playing a gut strung 5 string banjo finger style, and Harry Reser, playing a steel strung tenor banjo with a plectrum and the tone is remarkably the same. The gut strings sound as brilliant as the steel. There are certainly limitations to the recording equipment/media they had at the time so it might not be a fair comparison, but good gut strings really sound great. Dave

Official Luthiers Forum! http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/

String choice for Early Martin http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53931	Page 1 of 2

Author:	nathanpeirson [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
jfmckenna wrote: IMHO any of the tensions of nylon strings will be fine. Assuming of course the internals of the guitar are in good shape. Got any pics? I'm restoring one now dated 1860, probably very similar. I'm curios what the top bracing looks like in yours. Here is a sketch of the bracing pattern. I tried putting a light in the guitar but the transmission was poor. I used the basic form from earlymartin.com and added the bracing.

Author:	nathanpeirson [ Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
So, the next question would be, should I use a lower tuning to help with the tension issue...a full step or more?

Author:	Clay S. [ Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
With the shorter scale length standard tuning would effectively be a "lower tuning", but double check that because Early Martin guitar scales varied a lot.

Author:	Hesh [ Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
We restored an 1867 Martin and put Martin "Silk and steel" strings on it, tuned to normal pitch, no problem. Silk and steel strings were created just for this application and others like it.

Author:	Hesh [ Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
Also there is beautiful work on this guitar more specifically the ice cream cone, the neck joint and the bridge shape all show a "deliberateness of craftsmanship" that is excellent for Martin in their history. These are difficult to work on for a number of reasons and a neck reset should be done by someone with experience since this is a piece of history and some of Martin's finest work in my experience. Relax we don't accept shipped in work and are booked for many months and would not take it in. The tops are very thin and the ravages of time make these tops very easily cracked. Our's that we restored over the several year that we had it (spare time project) had many top cracks and had lots of repairs done in the past too. Cool old guitar and they can sound very nice with silk and steel on them. It will never be a loud guitar but with the "whole nine yards" neck reset, fret work (bar frets cool) bridge and saddle and nut work they can be very fun guitars.

Author:	bluescreek [ Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
I own a number of these I prefer the silk and steel

Author:	nathanpeirson [ Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
This guitar has a wonderful sound as can be expected. I put new strings on it...Martin Nylon and as with most nylon strings, I just don't like the treble. I will try Savarez 520 normal next. I did notice the neck bowing when I tuned up to a D tuning...full step down. I went back down to a C tuning and the neck relaxed a bit and the action was not as bad. I am thinking these are original frets. A lot of wear in the top strings in the first 4 frets. They all seem to hover around .05 width up the neck. I know this is approaching anathema but has anyone installed carbon fiber in the necks? It's an interesting dilemma to go between preservation and actual use. The top has been repaired in the past I can see the cleats when I checked. I have been wanting to build one this size for a while and this is a great go to for reference. Obviously won't be able to get Brazilian Rosewood and I've been curious about woods other than Rosewoods. Anyone have favorites?

Author:	bluescreek [ Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
why? you can't put a very high tension string on this without damaging the top. The neck isn't the weak point. Your guitar has Bar frets or should have the compression fret job is plenty strong if done correctly. I have had 4 of these guitar and never needed to reinforce the neck.

Author:	bluescreek [ Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
I have reset these and with the ice cream cone heel and rebuilt one. They are a beautiful joint and are the epitome of extreme craftsmanship. Sad the value of these are under $5000 , but they are a great piece to own. I have had them as early as 1847 and as late as pre 1890 . I like the non X braced ones more on gut string but the silk and steel will work.

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Author:	nathanpeirson [ Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
Are the Savarez a higher tension that ail and steel? I am curious. I know Savarez makes the 520 in normal and high tension and I’ve used the high tension on a previously owned Lyon and Healy, but I thought normal tension would work. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	nathanpeirson [ Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
I may have misunderstood the “why” question. Did it relate to the strong choice or carbon fiber comment. BTW John, I really appreciate your videos. Thank you for all the great info you give us! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	Clay S. [ Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
Not all silk and steel strings are created equal. Some can have as much tension as light gauge phosphor bronze strings. I don't know of any nylon sets that have as much tension as silk and steel strings. I had a Martin 1-26 in like new condition that could barely stand the tension of nylon strings - perhaps one reason it was in such nice shape. It was very lightly built, or at least, had a weak top. If you want to bring up the trebles you could add a wound nylon core G string and either use gut or extra light gauge (.010,.013) plain steel for the B and E. https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/ ... hp?t=21171

Author:	Hesh [ Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
bluescreek wrote: I have reset these and with the ice cream cone heel and rebuilt one. They are a beautiful joint and are the epitome of extreme craftsmanship. Sad the value of these are under $5000 , but they are a great piece to own. I have had them as early as 1847 and as late as pre 1890 . I like the non X braced ones more on gut string but the silk and steel will work. Yeah that was the first thing we noticed too the craftsmanship from a day gone bye. These old Martins are some of the finest craftsmanship that I've seen on acoustic guitars and a sight to behold. I agree that they should be worth more than they are.

Author:	Hesh [ Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
nathanpeirson wrote: Are the Savarez a higher tension that ail and steel? I am curious. I know Savarez makes the 520 in normal and high tension and I’ve used the high tension on a previously owned Lyon and Healy, but I thought normal tension would work. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Is there some reason that you prefer a classical guitar tone and sound and that's why you are looking into nylon strings? This guitar will sound much better with Martin Silk and Steels unless, of course the sound of a classical is what you seek.

Author:	Clay S. [ Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
If you want a more "steel string" sound possibly these bronze wound nylon strings combined with extra light steel string trebles might give that to you without undue stress on the guitar. I use nylon basses combined with extra light steel trebles on the "New Yorker" I have and they sound good to me. The next time I restring it I may try these for the basses: https://www.stringsbymail.com/daddario- ... et-93.html P.S. - you can use the nylon trebles on your ukulele (don't have one? - build one! ).

Author:	jfmckenna [ Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
nathanpeirson wrote: jfmckenna wrote: IMHO any of the tensions of nylon strings will be fine. Assuming of course the internals of the guitar are in good shape. Got any pics? I'm restoring one now dated 1860, probably very similar. I'm curios what the top bracing looks like in yours. Here is a sketch of the bracing pattern. I tried putting a light in the guitar but the transmission was poor. I used the basic form from earlymartin.com and added the bracing. The one I am working on has the 3 fan braces, spread out more, with the diagonal cross strut but doesn't have any finger braces. They obviously were trying a lot of things back in the day. I've repaired 5 top cracks on this instrument so far. I prefer them with nylon strings but to each their own. Best thing to do of course is experiment. I restored a couple Ashborn guitars last year which also exhibit very fine craftsmanship from the same era, and I tried many different sets on them including Tomastik, Silk and Steel and nylon. To me year, and the clients ear, the nylon were best. For $5 bucks a pop or so (except for Tomastik- expensive) it's worth experimenting.

Author:	nathanpeirson [ Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
I am using Nylon simply because of the string tension. I have Martin Nylons on it now and have ordered D'Addario Pro Arte and look forward to trying them out. As I mentioned, I noticed the neck bow when I tuned from a C tuning to D. I don't want to stress the top out too much. Here are a few photos. The one with the straight edge was when I tuned it to a C#.

Author:	jfmckenna [ Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
Is there a twist in the neck too? The other good thing about using nylon strings is that typically nylon string guitars have high action. So now you have an excuse to not reset the neck Does it look like the original bridge too? That looks like a fun little guitar there and a great piece of Americana guitar history.

Author:	doncaparker [ Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: String choice for Early Martin
jfmckenna wrote: That looks like a . . . great piece of Americana guitar history. As such, you should keep it far away from the filming of any Quentin Tarantino movies. I still cringe when I think about what happened on the set of The Hateful Eight.