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Bench Top Laser Recces?
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53727		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Bench Top Laser Recces?
The guy who does my laser cutting is leaving town in a few months which is problematic to my cause.

I’m sure I can find somewhere else to get the work done, but it is a vulnerabity having to outsource, so I’d love the ability to do it myself.

Any suggestions as to an affordable laser big enough for faceplates?

The only one I know of is GlowForge which has mixed opinions...
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
What kind of faceplates are you using? (what do they do?)
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
Just the veneer on the front of the headstock that has the logo...
Author:  Michaeldc [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
What about doing a small cnc instead? I started out with a used $1500US CNC Shark. I learned to cut the complete headstock with shell logo and tuner holes in one setup using this machine. I’m still using the Vcarve license that came with it. Vcarve is enough for 95% of the operations one would want to do in instrument making and it’s very easy to use.

M
Author:  ballbanjos [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
Michaeldc wrote:
What about doing a small cnc instead? I started out with a used $1500US CNC Shark. I learned to cut the complete headstock with shell logo and tuner holes in one setup using this machine. I’m still using the Vcarve license that came with it. Vcarve is enough for 95% of the operations one would want to do in instrument making and it’s very easy to use.

M


I agree--I did the same thing as Michael did with a CNC Shark and VCarve Pro. I sold the machine years ago and have upgraded a couple of times since then, but still use the VCarve license.

The Shark, or other small CNC routers, can easily take care of routing for inlays, cutting the inlays themselves, slotting fingerboards, etc. Plus, if you really wanted to, you can mount a laser in place of the spindle/router and have a pretty nice laser engraving rig.

Dave
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
It seems like the learning curve would be about the same for a CNC router as a CNC laser, and the router might be more versatile for wood working.
Author:  Michaeldc [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
Clay S. wrote:
It seems like the learning curve would be about the same for a CNC router as a CNC laser, and the router might be more versatile for wood working.


I think there is quite a bit more to consider with a cnc router, not that it’s too difficult. You need to think about which side of the vector you are cutting on, depth or cut, is it a two-sided operation, bit selection, part holding, etc. There are also things a laser won’t cut, ebony for instance. Ebony just catches fire.

Best
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
The GlowForge ads sure make it look easy, lol...
Author:  ballbanjos [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
VCarve Pro includes tool paths for laser work as well as router work. Very easy to use, and you can use the same designs for either routing or laser.

I have a small cheap laser that I use Light Burn software with--it's cheap and it works. My little laser does fine for engraving type stuff, and will cut wood up to maybe a 16th inch thick (multiple passes though). It does what I wanted it to do, and I don't have $200 in the whole rig. Got it through Banggood. It came with some pretty primitive software that wouldn't run on Linux, so I ordered Light Burn from the guy who wrote it. It works well and is easy to learn. Not as powerful as VCarve, but it cost about $30 so you wouldn't expect it to be.

Dave
Author:  Michaeldc [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
You could download a 30-day trial version of Vcarve to give it a try. You could also get Fusion for free (<$100k a year) but it’s gonna be a much steeper learning curve.

M
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
Dave,

Can you tell me what laser you have that is functioning at under 200$?
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
The v carve is an approachable price point...
Author:  ballbanjos [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
It's an Eleksmaker A3 Pro laser--very very basic and low powered, but it works, and actually pretty well for what I wanted it for. It's only 2500 mW, so you have to make multiple passes depending on the material and the depth of cut. Not a big deal for me.

Regular price on these right now seems to be $289, but they go on sale. I think I paid about $100 less for mine a year ago. Banggood sells several other models too--this one is about the most expensive of the super cheap lasers they carry.

Dave
Author:  ballbanjos [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
meddlingfool wrote:
The v carve is an approachable price point...


It's as good a program as I've seen for 2 and 2 1/2 D CAD/CAM. Really easy to use, and Vectric offers cheap upgrades (sometimes even free) as they come out with enhanced versions of the software. They update it every year or so.

Dave
Author:  bcombs510 [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
I was able to get going very quickly with Vcarve. There are a lot of good tutorials from Vectric on YouTube for just about any scenario.

Something really satisfying about making a set of molds, templates and spreaders that are all perfectly mated and the right offset so everything nests together the right way. Too many times I’ve bought a top template, outside mold and bending mold, even from the same supplier, and received three different shapes that are supposed to be the same. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  banjopicks [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
What do you typically do with a laser for guitar work?
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
These are pretty cool. I'm not sure how they compare price wise but they go for about $2k.

https://www.rendyr.com/optic-portable-l ... r/overview
Author:  ballbanjos [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
jfmckenna wrote:
These are pretty cool. I'm not sure how they compare price wise but they go for about $2k.

https://www.rendyr.com/optic-portable-l ... r/overview


Pretty cool machine! I wonder how well their smoke removal system works. Smoke is the biggest problem I've had with my cheapie. I use it outside with a laptop to drive it so that I don't set off my smoke detectors. But of course, it has no smoke removal system at all....

Dave
Author:  ballbanjos [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
banjopicks wrote:
What do you typically do with a laser for guitar work?


Ten or Fifteen years ago, I visited Kamaka Ukuleles in Hawaii. They cut out their tops, backs, soundholes, etc. using a laser. I've seen several uke makers use a laser to engrave fancy designs on their instruments--kinda like what National used to do with sandblasting. Martin has been using them for awhile to engrave the serial numbers, etc. into headblocks. On another thread here about labels there was a really nice looking laser engraved wooden label.

I don't use my laser on instruments, but sometime I might...

Dave
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
Personally I only use it for faceplates with the logo.

But if I had one big enough I’d have more uses...
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
But that portable one is slick, if it works as advertised...
Author:  rlrhett [ Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
There are two types of lasers at the low end: diode and CO2. The power ratings are deceptive. The diode type are rated for consumption, not output.

Generally speaking, only CO2 lasers output enough to cut wood, as opposed to just “engraving” (burning) an image. It’s possible to cut with a diode laser, but expect a lot of charring, multiple passes, a lot of smoke, and unpredictable results.

Minimal power for the CO2 lasers is about 40 watts. There is a whole industry around “k40” Chinese lasers that try to undercut each other by skimping on one feature or another. Cheap laser tubes with low duty cycles or over rated output. Poor control electronics, poor quality linear rails, poor smoke extraction. The holy grail is to find a K40 machine that has all good components. You have to know what to look for, but there are good websites and YouTube guides. Reasonable K40 laser machines are out there.

Then there are the “prosumer” K40’s like the Glowforge, Dremel, Muse that generally have good quality components packaged professionally... for a price. They can cost three or four times as much as a Generic Chinese K40.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
Thank you for the info!

A buddy of mine has a GlowForge and has trouble cooling it...
Author:  klooker [ Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bench Top Laser Recces?
I have an 80 watt Chinese CO2 laser. I wouldn't use anything smaller for wood but YMMV.

A lot has to do with the quality of the optics & perfect alignment of the mirrors and lens. You also need a way to exhaust the fumes and air assist is helpful - I assume you have a compressor? My laser also has a liquid cooling unit that chills water and constantly pumps it around the laser tube to keep it cool. I'm not sure what the smaller machines use but it's very important to have good, reliable coolng,

In terms of software it is much easier than a CNC router. All you need is a vector art file and it's essentially a printer - no tool path issues, fixturing is pretty easy and it's 2D.

Kevin Looker
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