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Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
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Author:  SnowManSnow [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
Hey folks. I've decided I want to make an actual woodworking bench instead of working off of a table. I did a little exploring at my Father's old shop yesterday and found some really nice oak that will offer plenty of stock for what I want to do. I'll be vertically laminating these lengths. A few questions if you will...

1- What is a decent thickness? is 3" enough? I will have to true up all the lumber because it is rough sawn, so I have flexibility here. The idea is to have a top heavy enough for a proper table and be able to use bench dogs and such for clamping.

2-For those of you who have built such a bench do you have any advice to offer?

As of now I'm unsure about a particular style of bench. My first goal is just to get the top done and built. The rough dimensions will be 6' x 30".

Thanks for any insight.
Author:  Ernie Kleinman [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
I built a euro style wk bench from the workbench book by taunton press. in 07. Try your local library for ideas I used e. hard maple . based on the workbench by frank klausz In . europe I think they use beech wood ?. Mine is 4 in thick an rock solid. I would hesitate to use oak as it has wide open pores to fill ,hard to finish, an leaves iron stains , when metal an water react you get black stains . I built a smaller bench from Pecan wood (close to hickory) after 10 yrs its all stained up, I would stick with a light wood, and put on a thick spar varnish or scrape an sand once a year. iF you have access to any closed pored heavy wood at least 3in thick or more it would work , Birch is reasonable. It all depends what wood is readily available to you. Build your design with the features you are looking for , good luck .It took me 1 month. But IMHO worth it
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
3in is plenty thick. I have a Roubo woodworking workbench for doing a lot of hand planing, sawing and so on but my main bench is simply topped with 3/4 inch plywood. A plywood topped bench is nice because once you chew up the top you simply replace it.
Author:  ballbanjos [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
I have a small Euro style carvers bench with a 3 inch thick beech top. My other two workbenches are old industrial benches with 2 inch thick maple tops. The 3 inch thick top has bench dog holes and the other two don't-- I think the extra thickness is nice for using the dogs and end vise, but 2 inches is more than sturdy enough.

Using the oak as a "base," and fastening a piece of 1/2 inch plywood or MDF to the top as a replaceable spoil board would work well too.

Dave
Author:  DennisK [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
jfmckenna wrote:
3in is plenty thick. I have a Roubo woodworking workbench for doing a lot of hand planing, sawing and so on but my main bench is simply topped with 3/4 inch plywood. A plywood topped bench is nice because once you chew up the top you simply replace it.

I have a masonite top on mine. Bought a full sheet and cut it into 4 pieces, stacked them up and screwed them down. Now when it gets too beat up, I can just take the screws out, remove the top layer, put them back in, and it's all new again :) It can also be lightly scraped to knock down any high spots, after operations like slicing veneers with an x-acto knife and leaving grooves in it.

Although with a 6'x30" area, you'd need a full sheet every time and there would be a lot of waste.
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
so is oak a bad choice as a top?
I don't see myself having metal on the top or water really as a previous post. I'm not concerned really with pores on a work bench, unless there's something I've not considered.
Author:  Pegasusguitars [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
I strip laminated my tops from 1" wide x 2" tall strips. I think 2" is plenty for top strength and most dogs. No issues after 30 years of use. It's the base that you need to worry about if you want a strong sturdy bench. Both of my bases are 8/4 trestle style, and I would not do that again. --Bob
Author:  Ruby50 [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
I built one from a Chris Schwarz book 12 (?) years ago. My favorite tool. I use holdfasts and they work perfectly in my 3-1/4" top, but if you don't use holdfasts, 1-1/2"" would be plenty. Get your vises together before you build a base - I was surprised at how much overhang I needed for a Veritas twin screw vice mounted on the end. Count on a Moxon or other small bench-top bench to get work high enough for precision work. I used 16 foot Yellow Pine 2 X12's cut in half lengthwise and then into three pieces - worked great. I might go a little narrower than 30" - mine is 28" and that is about all my 6'2 frame wants to reach across

Ed M
Author:  ballbanjos [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
Nice!

Nice workspace too. Mine will never, ever be anywhere close to that neat. I'm envious, but I'm afraid it's just not me. Chaos seems to rule in my shop, but it works for me...

Dave
Author:  Tom G [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
Remember Todd's Klausz workbench?
Once I realised that hand tools were the way to go for me, it set me on a long path of precision by hand, and have spent very little time here studying
since I stumbled across an intriguing statement on a bandsaw video,
Now, I'm not Rob Cosman was the line... Who was this guy?
Have spent much time on regular woodwork forums since, and can't wait to come back here with more skills and sense.

It took me a while to realise/convince/delude myself the Scandinavian was the finest bench that could be made.
I got derailed so much on my quest to have a bench, gaining more precision, i.e Charlesworth,
and rabbit hole machinery rust hunting a'plenty, to dimension timber, so could tackle a Jarrah sleeper if one ever came my way.

I don't even care if I don't get on with the bench, the dogs like the space made for the fifth leg,
and I have another bench which was to be "the bench" for other jobs.

Its no lie when they say making a proper bench by yourself mostly by hand, is a step in the journey in becoming a craftsman.
Said something like that, I think... but with more panache laughing6-hehe

Not even finished yet, and mostly doing everything the hard way
It will be fun and inviting to work on it.
I can laugh off all of the challenges that will be ahead regarding building geetars.
Doing everything on a shoestring, so there'll be many lessons learned ahead.
Attachment:
End caps laminated.JPG

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SAM_3670.JPG

Attachment:
SAM_3803 (copy).JPG

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Sorry computer is broken and I can't compress pictures anymore.
Perhaps you wanted to hear from an actual luthier/guitar builder, rather than a wannabe loofier, or someone obsessed about workbenches!
There is an Australian forum with a sub category titled "the workbench" for the likes of meself, but we're always on the lookout to infiltrate other forums
in hot pursuit of the ultimate bench.
If you've looked at all the google images you can find, then you may or may not have stumbled across another thread from a forum, called lumber j...., titled...
All replies on workbench smackdown.
A huge thread with about 200 benches, not many Scandi benches on it though, :(
Hope to see some on here, as some things aren't fully designed or built yet.

Tom
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
DennisK wrote:
jfmckenna wrote:
3in is plenty thick. I have a Roubo woodworking workbench for doing a lot of hand planing, sawing and so on but my main bench is simply topped with 3/4 inch plywood. A plywood topped bench is nice because once you chew up the top you simply replace it.

I have a masonite top on mine. Bought a full sheet and cut it into 4 pieces, stacked them up and screwed them down. Now when it gets too beat up, I can just take the screws out, remove the top layer, put them back in, and it's all new again :) It can also be lightly scraped to knock down any high spots, after operations like slicing veneers with an x-acto knife and leaving grooves in it.

Although with a 6'x30" area, you'd need a full sheet every time and there would be a lot of waste.


Great idea. Keep the plywood for ever and replace the masonite.

So far I'm pretty good on benches. The plywood has been just fine for years.
Author:  doncaparker [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
If you are open to buying a top instead of building it yourself, I have found that this supplier provides good quality products (made by Boos Blocks, but rebranded) and sells them at a decent price:

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/work ... -1-4-thick
Author:  Dave m2 [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
Some thoughts:

You don't need huge thickness. three quarter inch ply doubled works well. However you need to ensure it is flat so some supporting structure underneath may be needed

People try to make their bench stiff by using huge framework sizes and relying on the joints. This is unnecessary. The trick is to stiffen by adding plywood to the sides and back, or even just use diagonal bracing.

Think about the height. I am a little above average so have made mine a bit taller than normal. (I also use a box structure on top when I need to do close work)

We always need to clamp things to the bench so it is worth leaving the top to overhang the framework by a couple of inches or so so clamps can used.

Another trick I use is to have a movable upstand at the rear. Very useful for pushing against or clamping against. It can be dropped out of the way if I need it to be completely flat.

Storage of my planes and other stuff on shelves under the bench helps with the stability.

Cheers Dave
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
I used to work on a Workmate. Just violins, but it is still small, and moved all over the place! I bought a midsize Sjorbergs at Woodcraft several years ago, when they gave the drawers and cabinet underneath for free. I put my tools all in there. I can still walk that thing around some. The floor isn't quite flat I guess, and the shims underneath slide out. Maybe I need some rubber, and not wood strips. The bench works great, big enough to carve a cello, but I was surprised that it still walked.

I didn't have anything to true up a bunch of boards, or clamps to glue up, or laminate a top, so it was a no-brainer for me. It is in NO WHERES NEAR the same league as the sweet one Ed has, but compared to a Workmate?
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
Oak should make a fine bench top. You can rub a couple of thin coats of varnish or polyurethane on it to fill in the pores if you want. Any dark stains it might pick up from iron or what not will just make it look like a "real" work bench. A three inch thick top will weigh a ton and with a sturdy set of trestles under it should withstand any reasonable amount of pounding a workbench should take.
As Ernie mentioned, "The Workbench Book" by Scott Landis is worth a read to get an idea of what different craftsman use for benches.
A few decades ago I acquired a section of bowling ally, fully intending to build a classic bench around it. I've acquired some sturdy legs, some old mahogany to make an apron and a couple of left and right Wilton vises to be used in the project. However most of it's life the bowling ally top spent on top of a discarded metal main frame rack. It has recently been transferred to grace the top of two perfectly fine lateral files that became "redundant" and were headed for the scrap metal bin. When moving the top from the "rack" to the files I was amazed at how much weight it has gained over the years! Where once I could pick it up and almost toss it about, I now struggle to lift one end!
Maybe the wood hasn't gained weight - Maybe there has been an increase in the earth's gravitational force.!.!
A finely crafted bench should be a joy to work on, and can be an heirloom to be handed down through several generations. Making one's own tools can be a source of great pleasure. So often our projects leave us to find utility with someone else - but our tools remain with us.
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
thank you all for the insight. keep it coming! Ruby that is exactly what I had in mind. You mentioned it is your favorite tool, and I'm building with THAT in mind.. that a bench isn't just something to sit things on... but a big sturdy clamp.

I am thinking of ways to construct it so that it will be specialized for guitars, but that hasn't fully developed in my mind yet.
- A way to hold the body while routing an end graft
- A clamp that makes it simple to hold a neck in place while the headstock is thicknesses from the top
... all those little things that a luthier needs to do.

I do have a troji and it is a GREAT tool, but won't hold super steady .. perhaps a bench mounted troji would be the thing!~

Anyway as i say thanks for all the comments... I need all the help I can find :)
B
Author:  doncaparker [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
See near the bottom of this thread a photo of my workbench and a description of it:

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51518&hilit=go+bar+deck

If building one is what you want to do, that's awesome. I have thought about it. However, I decided that I can put together a pretty good version of what I want with various parts that are purchased. A butcher block benchtop, on top of the Lee Valley cast iron legs, with a Veritas twin screw end vise and lots of dog holes, are just plain heaven for me. Very, very flexible.
Author:  TerrenceMitchell [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
I agree with a number of the points above. I've been making furniture as a hobby for nearly 30 years now, and guitars less than two. So, my perspective on things is slanted toward furniture... but I can say that I made the transition into guitar building without any regrets in the tools (workbench included) that I collected over many years.

If the oak grain is relatively straight, the only problem you should have is staining as was mentioned above. My bench is European Beech at 3 1/4" thick. As a heavy hand tool user, and one who likes to buy things "once" I would not want my bench any thinner. I think mine is around 250-300 pounds and that means it never moves when I lean into it, pound on it, or use it as an anchor for some woodworking operation. I am not a proponent of covering a bench with a softer product that is replaced to protect the thing. Benches get beat up. I've been abusing my current bench for over 15 years and never once wished I had a replaceable top surface. a couple times over the years I've re-surfaced the top with a long and plane. Honestly, I don't even feel it's worth it unless the top is really out of true. Dents and stains don't hurt projects. That said, I don't do a bunch of razor blade cutting, or chopping with chisels directly on the top.

The biggest thing I would change about my current bench is to get a Vertas or Lie-Nielsen twin-screw chain drive vise. I really dislike having those pesky slides on standard vises (like I have now). They get in the way and rack if not maintained well. Defiantly put bench dog holes in the traditional pattern. You can use them for hold fasts, stops and whatnot. Can't imagine not having those.

Making your own bench is quite a project. Make sure you have access to the right power tools for the job or it will be no fun. I did a "thin" 2 3/4" maple bench top once that was 24" deep, 6' long, and made it in two halfs, gluing the final two pieces together after they were planed and jointed really nicely. I would suggest the same, unless you can get your top to a 30" planer at a cabinet shop or something. While I'm rambling about dimensions, I agree with a previous comment that 30" is too wide. Traditional benches are 24" deep for a good reason. You can't reach much past that without having to really strain. And you are going to have it against a wall most likely, which means you will want to reach what you hung on that wall, and if the bench is too wide you can't. Mine is 8' long, and I've never thought to myself "I have too much space to work on." Even building "little" things like guitars I still find myself using the space, and I keep my space tidy.

My bench has some support bars that run between the legs near the ground and a few inches below the top. These ones near the top are really handy to slide bench hooks and shooting boards onto. I put a panel of cherry on the bottom ones and store several tools and jigs down there... plus a traditional metal vice that is mounted on a plywood plate with posts that fit into the dog holes in the top for when I need to do a little metalwork.

Someone mentioned height and it's a good point. Problem is you won't know what you prefer until you live with it for some weeks or months. If you can design legs that allow you to shorten them down the road, then build it a little on the tall side and lay an increasing number of plywood sheets in front of the bench where you stand until the height feels perfect. then cut that much off the legs.

Man, that's a lot to say about a bench off the top of my head, but it's true. this is the most important tool in your shop. do it right.

FWIW, when I have a few thousand dollars that I don't know what to do with some day, I plan to buy a Lie-Nielsen workbench and add those cross-bars under the top that I'm so used to having. That would make the perfect bench for me I think.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
I have made a few generations of benches, usually under some time pressure. The last major foray was when I moved to a new shop, and needed seven benches for students to work on it ten days time. It concentrates the mind.

The top is what you work on, the rest is support for that. The top needs to be heavy and flat, and base needs to be rigid and screwed down to the floor. I made my tops from plywood and flake board; a layer of good ply on the top, flake board in the in the middle, and lower quality ply on the the bottom about 2" thick overall. Screw everything together on a flat floor to keep it flat. Watch where you put the screws so that you don't hit them drilling dog holes. DAMHIKT The bases are plywood with reinforced corners, assembled with sheet rock screws, after the manner of kitchen cabinets. The vertical dividers that add a lot of stiffness to the structure are screwed into rabbets in the ply. Spend some time leveling the base so the top will be level. These are easy to disassemble when you move, but maybe not easy to move. When I took the main bench top off, which was 8' long by 2' wide, with a 2'x4' ell on the end attached with a ply gusset, it dragged me right down as soon as it got over the edge of the base a bit. I had to take the ell off to move it. Fir plywood is about as dense as oak so that top is around 200#.

Some of my students, particularly the women, pointed out that they're not as tall as I am, and asked for lower benches. Sometimes I use those too, so I'm grateful for the nudge. One guideline I've seen on bench top height is to make it two finger widths lower than your navel. Seems about right.
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
doncaparker wrote:
See near the bottom of this thread a photo of my workbench and a description of it:

https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/vie ... o+bar+deck

If building one is what you want to do, that's awesome. I have thought about it. However, I decided that I can put together a pretty good version of what I want with various parts that are purchased. A butcher block benchtop, on top of the Lee Valley cast iron legs, with a Veritas twin screw end vise and lots of dog holes, are just plain heaven for me. Very, very flexible.

For the amount of time and work it takes THATS not a bad option imo.
Where did you get the top


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  doncaparker [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
doncaparker wrote:
If you are open to buying a top instead of building it yourself, I have found that this supplier provides good quality products (made by Boos Blocks, but rebranded) and sells them at a decent price:

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/work ... -1-4-thick


This is the best place I have found, but Grizzly is also a good source.
Author:  doncaparker [ Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
Snow—

A bit more follow-up. The bench I use had a thinner butcher block top from Grizzly when I first built it, but I recently replaced that top with a thicker one (but otherwise the same size) from Global Industrial. I do recommend the thicker one. It stays flat, and there is enough material to flatten it if it ever warps. The thinner one warped easier, and there was less material available for flattening. The Global Industrial top is a rebranded Boos Block. When you compare it with the cost of materials and hassle involved in building your own, I think it is a bargain. Making your own has the reward of being able to say you made it yourself, but for me, I like saying that about my guitars, not so much my workbench. To each her/his own.

The cast iron legs are awesome. I’m clearly not in the camp that likes having storage in my bench. I have storage elsewhere. My bench is one big gluing and work holding jig. I have dogholes all around the edges (3” in from the edge), spaced 6” apart, and a line up the middle, same spacing. This gives me lots of flexibility. Not having cabinets underneath makes using benchdogs, holdfasts and all manner of bolted on jigs easier. The twin screw end vise is my Troji. I love my bench. And other than assembling the parts and drilling the dogholes, I didn’t have to do a lot of work on it. More time for guitar making.
Author:  Ruby50 [ Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
SnowMan

The bench I showed above was built for furniture and turns out to be pretty ideal for guitars too - all that it does not need for guitars is the top thickness for holdfasts, but the weight is great to keep it in place without fastening to the floor.

Much of what Terrence said above is what I feel too. My bench is 7-1/2 feet long and 28" wide and the width works well for my 6'2" frame - but no more width than that. Also, if you can put the bench in the middle of the room you will appreciate it. The size is great as I can have a separate operation going on at either end of the bench with storage space in between.

I don't have a sacrificial surface and don't see the need.

By the way - the shop looks so good because I took this shot before I used it at all. Has not looked like this since.

And flattening a bench by hand is a worthwhile enterprise. A long straight edge and a pair of winding sticks work quite well - I used a #5 bench plane to take out the humps, then #7 diagonally to finish it off. I have re-flattened once in 12 years. A friend has a beautiful maple bench and he went over the top lightly with a toothing blade and work does not slip around so easily. My yellow pine does a good job at non-slip, and I think that oak would not be a problem

I use the Moxon for inlays and working on fretboards in general, things that want to be closer to your eye. A good rule for height I read about is wrist high for heavy work, elbow high for moderate precision, and almost shoulder high for precision.

At 34-1/2" tall, the left side of the bench works great for a desk for drawing and sitting and thinking on a stool. The right end with the twin screw vice works great on guitars, even though I installed it to hold Windsor chair seats - it does that admirably.

Below are some shots of my guitar vice. Two 1/4" plywood pieces with toweling spray glued to the faces, and 4 pieces of 3/4" X 3/4" wood glued vertically 14 inches apart make the flexible jaws, and the the vertical pieces catch the rim of a guitar and allow for a very tight grip. Short pieces of pipe insulation on the screws, too.

Good luck, and don't do it if it won't be fun

Ed M
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
One suggestion I would make, is that after you build your work bench, buy a piece of white melamine coated particle board or laminate a piece of plywood with white HPL (Formica) large enough to assemble a guitar on, but small enough to be handily placed and removed from the top of the work bench. The bright white surface allows you to see small screws and hardened glue drips that can mar the soft surface of a guitar top, and the melamine surface can be cleaned with water or solvents without damaging it.
Better still, if you have room - make a separate assembly bench with a melamine or HPL top. Make it small enough to not attract clutter.
Author:  doncaparker [ Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Actual Woodworking Bench! Top thickness
Clay S. wrote:
Make it small enough to not attract clutter.


There is no horizontal surface in my shop small enough to not attract clutter. :D
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