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| Finishing with the neck on http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53323 |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Finishing with the neck on |
Like most builders these days, I finish my necks and bodies separately. I spray nitro. There are times though, when I need to do some spraying with the neck on. As anyone knows, doing the sanding and polishing around the fretboard extension and the neck heel is extremely difficult. Getting those areas as nice as you can when doing separate spraying of the neck and body seems next to impossible. I'm interested in hearing any techniques for that. How to you sand and buff that area without it looking different than the rest of the finish? I've seen some finishes from pros who have done a great finish , even with the neck on, so I know it's possible. Thanks, Bob |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
" How to you sand and buff that area without it looking different than the rest of the finish? " Just do a mediocre sand and buff job on the rest of the instrument and it will all blend in....   Perhaps Brad Goodman could share some pointers - his finish work always looks first rate. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
Clay S. wrote: " ... Just do a mediocre sand and buff job on the rest of the instrument and it will all blend in.... ... You are giving away trade secrets! |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
I am aware that is how many builders relate to finishes.Too bad! |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
"I am aware that is how many builders relate to finishes.Too bad!" Forgive our bit of levity. Wood finishing is a challenge to most woodworkers who don't do it on a daily basis. Even professional finishers tend to prefer certain products and techniques. I think many of us (amateurs) have found finishing with the neck and bridge on to be an added impediment to doing a high quality job, so for the most part, we don't do it. The title of Brad Goodman's thread on neck fitting probably equally applies to finishing a fully assembled instrument - there are no short cuts. When doing touch up work on "high end" (although not particularly high quality) furniture it could take an hour or more to carefully match and blend a relatively small amount of damage. For some repairs you would work on the piece for five minutes at a time, multiple times to make up that "hour". It was all pretty much hand work, and there really were no short cuts to a good job. You may find that is the case with working around the neck joint and bridge on a fully assembled instrument. You may be able to use buffing wheels on a dremel to work close to the joint and use an oscillating sander on the small areas close to it. You can use Emory boards and soft cloth wrapped around a tongue depressor with compound on it. Wool lube can help achieve a uniform sheen when using sandpaper or steel wool. I would be inclined to work the difficult areas first and then bring the rest of the finish up to it. |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
Machine buffing does not get into inside corners well at all. These areas must be hand sanded carefully and then hand buffed and even then it is tough to get. A felt block and fine polishing compound usually do the trick. |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
Thanks for the replies-Bob |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
Here is an off topic video, the first part of which may give you some tips on working in tight spaces. A little bit on metal working, and gentle humor interspersed throughout: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-beGnHzQDM |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Finishing with the neck on |
As I stated in the other thread I only finish my archtops with the neck on. I do not use power sanders to sand the finish . I only use 600 grit on padded blocks to sand the finish. By the neck I simply fold the paper and sand right up the corners at all the intersections of the neck and top-this is no "harder" than sanding any other part of the finish. I use 2 14" buffs (Stew Mac) which are about 3" wide to buff the guitar and when I finish buffing I take one of the buffs off to get into the corners. You CAN get right to the inside of the corners with the buff. You have to hold the guitar at some odd angles to do so and you have to angle the buff in there. Like any buffing operation you have to really look at your work and adjust your technique as you go. My corners have just as high a gloss as the rest of the guitar. What is actually harder for me to get "perfect is when spraying trying not to get a build up of lacquer in the corners, but that's a subject for another thread.... |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
When buffing next to the edges of the bridge and the fingerboard extension don't forget to mask. Leaving the tape on overnight might allow water to wick up and saturate into the fingerboard or bridge. |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
Clay- I like that tip where he glued a piece of sandpaper to a custom made pointed stick. I use all kinds of sanding sticks, but have not done it quite like that. Don't know where or when I'll use that idea, but I certainly will. Barry- You lost me on the masking. I would never buff a finish with a bridge on and I never mask under the bridge footprint or under the fretboard extension. I rout those parts of the finish off. Brad-You must really have the touch. No matter how hard I try, and I remove the buff pads like you describe, I always can see some cross grain buff marks on the sides around the neck heel, even though the nitro has dried for a month. If I did not live on an island, I'd drive over for a visit! Everyone stay safe and have a great Holiday.- Aloha , Bob |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
Bob, during sanding and buffing of the finish you need to go right into the inside edges at the fingerboard extension, the neck heel, and the bridge. Put masking tape around the edges of the fingerboard and bridge while you sand and buff the top. It stops the edges of your tools from scratching these edges. |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
Classicals are usually finished after the neck is on, with the same issues, except more are French polished than sprayed lacquer. A few builders do some of the finish work before the neck and body are joined, such as filling and early finish coats. I've done a bit of it that way with some success, but I do FP, so YMMV. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
What I have learned from French Polishing classical guitars that are totally built up in the white including the bridge glued down is that once you get it right you become much better at finishing repairs 
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finishing with the neck on |
I’ve finished all my acoustics and classicals for the last 13 years with neck on. It gets easier with practice but one always has to be aware of unintended contact of the headstock and other bits with the spinning arbor. Barry’s reply was bang on, including the difficulty of spraying into corners. My corner issues became much more challenging when I switched from a precat polyester (in New Zealand) to Mohawk nitro in Canada. Bubbles at corners were also an issue. I solved all these problems and more when I switched last year to a contract finisher (former Larrivée folks). They do a better job than I ever could and even manage mixed satin/gloss surfaces on the same guitar — something I would never attempt.The extra charge for finishing with neck on is small, and about the same as that for finishing slotted headstocks. I never really enjoyed finishing, so using a skilled contractor is, to me, worth every penny. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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